Drama Topics: Guild Runs With PUGs
Posted by iTZKooPA on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 29 Comments Tags: Drama, PvE, e-drama, guild drama, loot drama, looting, naxxramas, pugs and loot, pugs in guild runs, raiding
I've brought up my humble little guild a few times in the past. We've had our fair share of issues, but most of them have pertained to getting a raid going, let alone completing it. After some hardwork from the leaders, a few weeks of gear farming for new members and a fresh batch of core raiders, the guild is back on track and finally in Ulduar. We've come a long way from scrapping together 10-man Naxxramas raids earlier in the year, but we are still a very much a casual guild, at least by my standards. Casual or not, all guilds have their share of drama, and lately it has been surrounding the object of endless bickering, purpalz.
If there is anything that can instill a sense of hatred among guildmates, for no other reason than favor from the RNG, it is loot. Interesting and new encounters get players into raiding, but it is the off chance at a new piece of shiny armor, or a pointy new piece of metal, that keeps many of us coming back week after week. Insert some unskilled, unknown or otherwise "undeserving" players into the mix and you have all the ingredients for Drama Soup. Add a healthy dose of PUG to the recipe and you have yourself the chunkiest Drama Stew since the creation of The Real Housewives franchise. This is exactly what has been happening in Warriors of Faith lately.
I haven't raided in almost two weeks, but previous to my E3 sabbatical we had a few nights that our heroic Naxxramas outings were filled in with PUGs. Some of the pick-ups were old friends or friends of guildies, so they were known to the group. Others were entire strangers, unfamiliar with our flavor of raiding, discussion and joking. All of which tend to be various forms of toilet humor and other unprintable topics. Don't get me wrong, PUGs and everyone in the raid deserves a shot at the gear they helped create, but it irks me when some stranger picks up a piece of loot I have been after since our first clear. To make matters worse there is currently no restriction in my guild of how much loot any single player can take in a run, assuming the rules of the last raid I attended still stand. That is what really cooks my goose.
My last heroic Naxxramas clear saw a pair of PUGs pick up not one, not two, but five pieces of gear! As I said, I am all for giving our saviors (this is what they were since the raid would have been delayed, possibly even canceled, without them) their just dessert, but is it too much to ask for a limit? Sure, they saved our bacon, but the raid was still a guild run (20 or more guildies), not a PUG group.
I never PUG full raids so I am not sure what the norm is. Would imposing a limit of two class-based items or a single multi-class item be too far? How about a lower max roll for PUGs? If there is no restrictions to what an unfamiliar face can obtain, thus making everyone's chance exactly the same, then why should members even bother with a guild run when they could run a raid at their leisure with the same chance at loot? Think about it. In my opinion gearing up members is what a guild run is for. PUGers are enticed by these oppurtunites for the fast clear, easy emblems and, naturally, a shot at some - often unwanted - loot.
What do the PUGers out there think about limits? How about other guilds who fill their ranks with the helpful populace? Does anyone place restrictions on what a PUG can roll on? Do you force them to roll lower (such as /random 75), fight over the scraps (unwanted loot), or pay them off with gold if they win a roll? Or are they simply privileged to be a part of such an amazing guild, even if it is just temporary?
A limited loot solution surely isn't perfect, would cause loot and scoot syndrome, and a lower chance at winning would upset people from the start, but keeping guild members happy should be job #1 for the guild.
Reader Comments (29)
i was doing a 10 man OS and this one pug got upset that, even though he got another epic epic, when he rolled highest on the emblem bag he didn't get. as leader i give normal bag and emblem bag to someone who hasn't got any other epic but this guy chucked a tanty!
i've pugged most of my raids, and in all fairness, there was never any restriction. The only requirement is MS prio over OS. and forced equip on BOE's.
I've geared up to full t 7 in just two raids. But in all fairness it also doesn't sit well with me if a green blue guy doing 1500dps max is getting a t 7.5 item i really wanted aswell. It is however the faith of rng, can't do anything about it.
We don't have any rules in my guild either, just roll if you need it. Though i usually tend to propose a pass if a player with low raid time wins the good stuff that can also gear up a dedicated player with a lot of raiding time in guild.
We do have a dkp system in place, but currently only 6 or 7 players have acumulated enough dkp to use them on gear, and those are already pretty much decked out for most stuff. So they don't need it.
Unfortunately i'm the one never getting to roll at all in raids since my guild runs never provide any upgrades i haven't farmed from pugs already.
Im in a casual guild that runs naxx10, but pugs naxx25. We have 2 dedicated tanks n 2 dedicated healers, dps is easily pugable. Unlike most raids on out server, we dont care about achievements, but do ask for gear.
I got most my gear from naxx25, only my waist is still naxx10 level. We running raids, pass on most of the drops, since i dont need much anymore. But i do get pissed off if i dont win the T7.5 tokens for chest n gloves i still need.
I raid with my guild and if we have to PUG the odd player to fill out the slots we do. Loot is alwats done by loot master, Main spec rolls first (if you are in the raid as a healer - that is your main spec for the raid etc). then offspec, then DE. Anyone can roll as long as its an upgrade and relevent spec. The lootmaster dose check (ie if a dps warrior tries to roll main spec on a tank plate item etc). But any PUG members get the same chance as any Guild members.
I have also PUG'ed with other guilds for the ocational 25 man. Most of these guilds usually have some sort of DKP system in place for their members, which is quite hard to implement on a Pug. One of the best systems i've seen is a straight roll initially of anyone who wants it for main spec, both guildies who will bid dkp for it and pugs who wont. If a pug wins it then they get the item, if any of the guildies win the roll, then the item gose to their dkp bidding system and all of those that rolled must then bid dkp to get it. So basically a pug roller has an equal chance of getting the item as if they were rolling in any other pug raid. The more guildies who need the item and are prepared to bid dkp on it, the more likely the item will go to a guildie. eg if 5 people need the item, and one is a pug, the pug has a 20% chance (1/5) to get the item, the guild has a 80% chance to get it (4/5). Once its in that guild system dkp then decides who actually gets it out of those 4 rollers.
If your raiding as a pug you have equal rights to any other indavidual raider in the raid, regardless of guild or not guild. If a guild raid rules says a 1 item limit for a raid, and it applies to all raid members then that is fair enough. If you apply it only to pug members, then it is certainly not fair and why the hell should they hang around after winning an item?