Project Lore

first comment i think :D
yeah i totally agree

Interesting...I like hybrid classes, they can do any role. But really think that 5% more DPS for pure classes is actually a right thing. I mean, Paladins/Druids/Shamans are a "do it all" class as you said. And pure classes get boring when compared to hybrids.

ohh and First! xP

I agree with that. I think that people make the choice to roll a hybrid because if they want to try healing or tanking instead of DPS, they can, without having to level an alt. Those who can only DPS should have a slight increase because of their limited options.

ohh nvm lol....second though =P

Wow, GC totally contradicted his very own company on his own statement. If this is the case, they need to be looking at the pure dps classes and trying to fix the lack of DPS some are putting out. The rogue for the perfect example, I know quite a few rogues in my guild battling for 4th and 5th below Ret pallies, DK's, and Fury wars constantly. He needs to learn the truth before putting up such a moronic statement.

Yes. Most deffinatley. it only makes sense for the DPS classes to do a higher amount of DPS. With that being said, i know the Hunter is going to be put on the front lines and we'll have a brief period of time amazing ourselves at how high our DPS shot up.
Then, by next patch, there will be countless complaints that the Hunter is OP and, we'll be back where we are now. Over-Nerfed.

I agree with this, however it does not seem the case in the game at the moment. I have a rogue which I left as soon as patch 3.0.1 landed, because of the horrible hit they took. I now play a Paladin and I have to say I prefer my Rogue but I feel there is no reason playing one right now because they are a joke.

I agree that pure dps classes should be able to do more dps then hybrid classes, and from what i've seen rogue's are the one class that i see below the hybrid classes consistantly. I say this because just because a hybrid class is always on the top of the DPS charts doesn't mean that they have the capacity to put out more DPS then a pure class.

A lot of it comes down to not only gear but knowing your rotation for your spec and class. Even knowing this and being evenly geared I know some rogues in my guild that are always below hybrid classes, while other pure classes can fight them for the top spot. For the most part I think the pure classes are doing more dps then hybrids as long as their on even ground.

I agree with above. I play a Ret pally and i can easily out dps any "dps only" class, it would make sense if the aforementioned case was true unfortunately as of right now, its not, not even close.

As a hunter, I agree with Blizz (duh).
I think giving the pure DPS classes a boost to deeps is a great incentive to play one. I mean, I'm not complaining about my DPS. I'm the only MM speced hunter in our guild and I out DPS the rest of them... by a lot. I'm just saying, when you're watching your DPS get destroyed in Naxx by a ret pally and then after a boss you watch him pick up heal loot for off-spec you can't help but wonder, "Why am I doing this? I could roll a utility class, be duel-specing by next patch and enjoying more aspects of the game!"
I, however, will not do this. My first toon was a shammy and I got him to 70 before I made the choice to switch to my lowbie hunter. I got him leveled and geared before Wrath and I haven't looked back or had more fun.
Maybe I just feel we pure breeds deserve a little icing on the cake for what we chose to pass up by rolling a single function class. I mean, thats what we're here for.

Great work Lore dudes! Keep it up!!!

@ Cpherblock - Maybe the rogues you know aren't as good as playing as the Ret's, DK's and Fury warriors. Just because a class has higher potential doesn't mean that they are going to be higher DPS.

I personally feel that a pure DPS class should get a slight bump over hybrid classes.

I'm just going put my two cents in from the damage meter side of things when our guild does our naxx runs. DK's usually come out in the top three. On my fury warrior i've had little trouble keeping up with them (well see if this continues after 3.1 and the TG nerf >.<) A warlock always seems to hit the high end of the dps charts as well as our hunter. The classes who seem to be doing there very best to dps in this game but can't touch the DK's and are struggling against the other classes are always the rogues and mages. Which are both pure dps classes. Rogues have been having woes ever since Wrath came out and to be honest i stopped playing my rogue alt cause i haven't seen much future in the class at the moment. I personally agree completely with GC that pure dps classes should be able to out dps us who've got the option to be tank or healer. Does that mean I won't be able to rock out some awesome numbers on my Fury warrior? maybe so but i do think the dps classes need some 3.1 lovin' imo. (let's just hope GC remembers that DK's are a HYBRID CLASS TOO ^_^)

I am sort of up in the air about this. Wile, yes I do play a paladin as a main and have 3 different sets of gear and can tank/heal/dps, I can't do all that at the same time. Yeah I can take some hits speced as either, but you wouldn't see me taunting mobs or bosses because I can't tank a 25 man raid boss as a ret paladin. Yes a "pure dps class" can't tank or heal like I can with a respec, but then again, I'm paying to respec, gem, and enchant all my three sets of gear so it does cost me in the end.

And similar to how things went in the past with a ret paladin (I know this isn't quite the case now but bear with me) their DPS was intentionally sub par because they were hybrids, and as such, was shunned by the wow community for the longest time. While we now provide a lot of utility, being lower on damage output and hitting an enrage timer just because you can toss out some gold to spec differently and grab another gear set and you can heal or tank doesn't sit right with me. If you are there to DPS, you should be able to keep up with the other people who are there to DPS (allowing for a slight offset for utility of course).

Like Bastosa said, there are downsides to playing a hybrid. Just because I can spec something other than protection doesn't mean I want to. Often times people that play hybrids can get pigeon holed into one of their possible specs just because they can.

While I do agree that classes should be balanced, they should be balanced around damage output vs. utility not the fact that they can be a tank if they spend 50G in respec fees and dump money into another set of gear if they feel like it. There are plenty of people who will nt build offsets or spec anything besides Ret because they don't want to play anything other than DPS.

Im playing a ele shammy and hybrid classes dont have half of my total damage... the problem it is with the loot.a pally gets items for holy,prot and retri in the same raid .. the reason is (for off spec) ya sure.i dont know how all shammys over here are doing but only hunters and worlocks can beat me.i dont give a fuck on retri pallys they realy suck in pve.

I agree with that.

Rogues, Hunters and Mages can't heal themselves (well, conventionally).

Druids, Shamans, Shadow Priests, Paladins can, whilst doing DPS.

So it's only fair, really. =/

It's like if they were to bring out a pure-healer as the next Hero class, I'd expect them to be (and stay) better than other healers because it would be far more difficult to level as one.

Just my two cents.

I totally agree with that. One counter-point to Bastosa's "Devil's Advocate" argument, because I hear that all the time... My Shaman might be speced Enhancement, but he can still heal, and still throw bolts of lightning. Granted, not as good as he could if he were speced for those trees, but he can do it. With the introduction of dual specs, it will be even less of an issue because you can essentially change from DPS to Healer with a button click. Granted you need to have the gear, but what decent Hybrid raider these days doesn't have multiple gear sets? Pure DPS classes should do the highest DPS, period... I even think 5% is too little.

I play a level 80 mage pimped out epics (363 days played). I also play a level 80 ret pally modestly geared (30 ish days played).

Both are DPS. Ret pally dies half as much as the mage does, in worse gear. In Wintergrasp my ret pally can hold off 5-10 alliance by itself, where my mage just dies horribly.

Imo 5% more dps for being a "pure" class is insufficent given the loss of survivability that many pure classes take by not being able to self heal.

I am shaman, and I feel alright about all the pure dps' can pwn me in dps ( in most cases) since I can go resto from time to time. And that is how it should be! imo.

I've fought off hordes of mobs as a pally that would've shredded my mage. Mage is supposed to be "better aoe" but isn't really, esp since the instant damage coefficents scale poorly.

Changes to Arcane Barrage and Molten Armor are going to seriously hurt mages in ways that Blizzard probably doesn't anticipate. As is, because healers can wear resilience, and have a lot of anti silence and anti CC abilities, I find my epic'd out mage struggles to kill them with mediocre CC and interrupts, and survivability. Whereas my pally can smack smack dead most everything now.

On the tournament realm, the spiritless gear makes arcane mages struggle to PVP in actual PVP gear. Making them extremely squishy and borderline unplayable because they OOM while fighting healers.

Hybrids (esp druids +shamans) can out CC, match DPS, and heal in a better armor class than my mage, so as a pure DPS I feel 5% more dps just does not cut it - especially having seen how powerful even undergeared ret pallies or DKs can be in comparison.

When wow and other mmorpg started, there was a statement untold: Do not make any class to be nerfed.
Wow failed, now this is just a thing to make waves, a bone for the forum people.
Sorry, but wow sucks a lot, where are the hard mechanics for each boss(this was actually statement: "Each and every boss, elite or event will have a totally unique mechanic.")?
Where is the motivation to play with nerfed classed("I need that for x specc, that to and that")?
I hope someday, near future, when wow will such so much, that those players with hibrid classes will say: "Ok, we have 10 paly, let's go in naxx." you all will say:"wow sucks".

i have read some of the comments pretaining to rouges, rouges as stated in the hand book you get with the game. are the most leathal class in the game, and as far as pvp goes they are. i seen rouges kill palldins,dk, warriors, before the stun has wore off. rouges are a pvp class that is where they shine. if you want them stronger in pve prepare for a pvp nerf. they cant be good at everything.

I'm a hunter. And Of course... I completely disagree with this! Just because a class is a "do it all" class, doesn't mean that they should be punished for it. IMO there should be less or not any penalty at all.

I'm all for pure classes having slightly higher dps, I mean they are, afterall, pure dps. But with what this user said:

Cypherblok: "...If this is the case, they need to be looking at the pure dps classes and trying to fix the lack of DPS some are putting out. The rogue for the perfect example, I know quite a few rogues in my guild battling for 4th and 5th below Ret pallies, DK’s, and Fury wars constantly. He needs to learn the truth before putting up such a moronic statement."

I have a problem with this, I've seen some very good rogues do awesome dps and beat pallies and DKs and such. Maybe it's the rogues in your guild that need to learn how to better gear, and spec themselves, and learn better spell/ability rotations?

DKs aside, Blizzard can't make a bad player do some magical guaranteed dps. It's up to the player to learn to min/max to maximize his or her own dps.

ozzel's in my experiance undergeared DK's do alot less dmg then those so is geared only class i can see need better raid dps is rogue and undergeared ret pallys dont do to mutch dmg infact you shude be able to out dps out threat him as mage and this is PVE not pvp if you talk of PVP then you as mage shude have no problem vs a pally
its all of knowing wath to do. + now its alot in gear to.

Coming from someone who played a rogue first, then moved over to a shammy, then a paladin, I can say that I'm firmly against DPS differences.

People will complain and say "why roll a rogue when a ret pally can do just as much dps?"

And to that I answer: playstyle.

It's not about the stupid numbers. You play a class because the class is fun to play. People get so competitive about the meters. Just lighten up and play the class you like. If you like playing as a pally, play as a pally. If you like playing as a rogue, play as a rogue. Both have upsides, both have downsides. For instance, as a rogue you'll never be asked to heal or tank, you'll never have to collect as much gear, you'll never get people yelling at you to buff them... etc.

All dps specs should have equal damage. It goes both ways - why roll a ret pally if a rogue does more dps? Balance them all out and let playstyle and personal preference decide.