Project Lore

WTF, terrible article. There is no "etiquette" on the AH. Stopping being a whinny bitch, its people like you that keep that AH prices insanely high and for people who don't have 80's raking in the gold poor. You don't like some one undercutting you buy them out and repost at your price. He makes money and you will ultimately make more money.

@ PatrickD, I'm glad you disagreed. Not every topic is going to be something that everyone nods and agrees with on this site or any site. They are opinions. Please also read some of my rebuttals here. My main complaint is that when an item sells low and then repeatedly sells low is it because it's the fair price or a gold farmer using another avenue to collect quick money so they can give it to someone who's paid for it.

Apparently they've come to the conclusion that dumping things for a quick sale gets them money quick and we suck it up and give it to them so someone else can buy it. After a while the market on the AH becomes diluted very quickly and your lucky to make money on any item. This is not a case of QQ, it's a case of respecting the nature of the AH and those trying selling by undercutting within reason.

But again, I'm not asking you to think like me but to just hear my thoughts and make your own opinion.

“It’s called etiquette or common courtesy to respect other people’s auctions so we can all make money.”

Um, no. This is the cry of people who have no other way to make money, or are too lazy to try other ways.

You really need a better understanding of supply and demand in economics.

There are soooooo many variables that affect this situation from server to server (how many people are leveling the professions/selling the particular items at the same time, server population in general, server demand for a particular item, etc.).

Some examples of how the above affect price are:

1. Lots of people selling any item at once wil flood the market and cause the price to drop (usually seen when people are leveling professions in some proximity to each other).

2. In WotLK, things (ore, eternals, crafted items, etc.) all sold for inflated prices initially because fewer people could craft those items as people who had toons with the same professions were busy leveling the toons as opposed to the professions. WotLK has been out for some time now and people have, by and large, had their toons catch up on their professions. If only one person can make the item, he commands the price. If many people can make the item, the market commads the price.

3. There may simply not be enough of your target population on your server. For example, there may be more cloth wearers than plate wearers on your server. If you are attempting to sell crafted plate armor of the epic variety, there may simply be fewer level 80s that can actually wear what you're selling. Once they get it then the need for it drops of and with it, the price.

4. Some servers have populations that simply won't pay what an item is "worth." For example we look to the Tranquil Mechanical Yeti. This fine fellow is a non-combat pet that darn near any engineer can make. On my server I can sell one for between 145-185 gold depending on the time of the week (weekends bring more demand with the higher populations of players on at a time). On other servers people don't bother making them because they can't even to get them to sell for what they have to invest in the mats to make the thing. Why the difference? It is the exact same item which functions in game the exact same way for any player regardless of faction or class. Some servers simply have populations that would sooner die than pay gold for a non-combat pet.

But regardless of any circumstance....IT IS NEVER ANOTHER PLAYER'S JOB TO MAKE YOU MONEY! You don't like the price someone sells something for then buy it and sell it for what you think its worth. That's called "cornering the market." Good luck with that. The server economies are to vast to make that realistic for all items. High end ones maybe (To go back to the Yeti, I have been know to buy a Yeti that I think is underpriced so that I can sell mine for MY price and then resell the one I bought for MY price). Do you net as much gold doing that as you do when you make and sell the item. No. But you put in a hell of a lot less time and effort. If I can net 25 gold just from buying and re-listing an item then good for me.

There is no such thing as "etiquette" in a free market. Everyone is trying to make money. No one sets the limits on what something can and cannot be sold for. The all time applicable rule for questions regarding what something is worth is SOMETHING IS WORTH WHAT SOMEONE IS WILLING TO PAY FOR IT. IF that is less than what you're charging..so be it.

K heres my view of the this "Etiquette".
Have i ever done any proffesions...No
Do i craft items.........No
Am i an impulsive gold spender.....yes
And to be an impulsive spender u need gold

K u said yourslef "Everyone has the right to make gold"<--- paraphrasing of course
So should the guy that lists if for 200g not sell it because you listed yours first? Undercutting your competition is not rude, its a strategy. That guy could have earned 300 more gold...but he didnt and hes happy with his price. You have no more of a right to make gold then he does..and he cant do anythign you cant do.

To the peope that say "you should have bought low and sold high" thats true but is it really in context to the situation? Its true that by undercutting you it takes gold away from you, but again theres nothing he can do that you cant. If you disagree say that...but is the language neccesary:)

"As for most players myself included who work hard to sell an item for the true value of the work and time invested we want what we deserve."

So what formula determines the "true value?"

In your post you mentioned that the price of Nobles cards were at one time 2500g and now they have come down. It would seem to me that you were getting more than your so-called "true value" at that point.

You still seem to be ignoring that prices are set by supply and demand. You are in markets where there is more supply than demand and your undercutting competitor is willing to take less profit then you.

And your reference to gold-farmers is irrelevant. They want to make profits as much (if not more) than your average wow-player. They have a real life incentive to make money as efficiently as possible, and so they are not going to artificially deflate any price unless they can make more money by doing so.

In fact, I may be one of those people you think are gold-farmers. For several months I would buy 10-20 stacks of Saronite Ore a day. Prospect them, enchant some of the good gems, and then sell all the gems on the AH. I made sure that each and every one of my auctions was the cheapest, because I could just "pump out" more gems the next day.

Am I farmer? No. But I realized that I could sell stacks of gems a day at a low price, or I could keep my prices where everyone else's were and sell only a few stacks each week. Yes, I was making less gold per sale, but I was selling so many that it made me more money overall.

The "true worth" of any item is what people are willing to pay for it. Period.

10,000 gold is plenty to hav to hav fun in the game

i'm kinda tired about big auction ppl whining 'bout there lowered income

before you whine think about the casual players just struggling to get the 1000g together to buy their northrend flying (much less their epic flying)

mining (at least on my server) pays shit now (saronite selling at 30g a stack)

to some ppl that doesn't sound bad but think about if you are running around trying to mine w/o flying

watev maybe im whining myself but still i find it hard to get the gold for just your 'necessities'

@Valaar - When you buy something in AH do you buy an item at the cheapest cost you can or at a higher price? If you purchase the least expensive item when there are higher priced items available you are encouraging the exact behavior you're criticizing? When you put something up on AH and you're not the first one posting the item, are you actually saying you don't price it lower?

And like I said earlier, a lot of people use addons so your argument that people are purposely undercutting isn't fair. The software determines the price without the player even LOOKING at the other items posted.

On the dalaran server, saronite ore stacks are down to 15g for 20. Quite sad.

I have made more than most on the AH. I currently have over 100,000g. I have over 100 items on the AH most of the time.

I will beat the lowest price by 1 silver unless that would take me below what I feel is a reasonable margin. If it is too low I just don't list that item that day. Either they are selling it too low and it is a temporary dip that will come back up, or I will eventually need to adjust my own idea for the price of that item.

Not everyone listing things on the AH is looking to maximize their profit. Some just want to sell it as quickly as possible, because the need the gold right away for something else. If they list it low enough, I will even oblige them and buy it all to sell later.

Personally I don't think etiquette has anything to do with it. Thinking like that will make your AH pricing decisions less profitable.

Wilx
(yes Wilx from the Kara episode)

maybe some of these people with exorbitant amounts of gold shud just pik a random person and give them some money.

(Zeminonu on Rivendare wud b grateful)
lol jk jk

but seriously maybe wow shud hav a lottery or sumthing

@ Tehdead

I didn't know putting a post up here would make me lose my job all of a sudden. I wouldn't have said anything if I knew that...

Now if getting, let say, copper is too hard for ya, and taking too much time, focus on another item, more in the region you're mostly at, or closer to your levels ability... just dont whine that the 'noob' beat you to the mats in the area he's busy in, and managed to sell them for all the golds he/she needs at that time instead.

And I understand you have to work to live (and hope its not the other way around), but it seems to me WoW is more like work to you aswell.
--------------------------------------------------

High lvl people more than often forget they were newbies once too, and were happy with getting their first gold pieces.
The biggest problem in this game is that stuff can be priced absurdly high, including vendor items and trainables.
Almost on every forum or blog there are complaints about how (insanely) expensive things are, most recently with the announcement of Dual Spec and its 1k gold cost.
Yet when it comes to their own income (as what this appearantly is about), high prices suddenly are all good.

Of course, it is a LOT of gold one needs in WoW, getting expert and artisan riding, and CWF and who knows what else more, but it still is managable. There are more than enough ways to get gold in this game, so why not switch 'tactics' every now and than?

Maybe people are just getting more and more "greedy" further along the game and start selling stuff on AH for just way too much gold.
Try to think the other way around for a change, and think about what fucks up the economy more...
People putting items on AH for insane amounts of gold, or the people that try to sell stuff for reasonable prices.
What would you want IRL??? (and think as both buyer and seller on this)

Maybe I'm all wrong, most likely because I'm not enough of a hard-core player... but at least I'm still having fun playing WoW ;)

I just sold 4x Librarian's Paper Cutter for 5g each. Sold in 3 seconds after posting. Suck it.

I've seen on loads of places that alchemy / herbalism is a good moneymaker, On my server it isn't. prices of potions are so low you have to farm the herbs to make a profit.
Flasks are selling ridiculousely low, mana pots and health pots are the only stable prices, unfortunately both are selling that low, that its hard to get the herbs from the ah and still make a profit.

The reason for this is simple. Putting up any item that others can sell aswell will make them undercut, and not by a few silvers, but by 1 gold immediately. And when prices are only 3 or 4 gold per pot. It only takes two idiots and the market is fucked.

Not just with herbs though, On every item you try to sell people will undercut you with insane amounts. Just take crafteds, some epic items are in the ah for days on end at 1k, a reasonable price Then someone spams trade and sells the same cloack for 300g barely covering the mats. And not just one, but 5 or six at the same time.

They don't even realise they're screwing up the market. I had a long talk with someone constantly selling flasks at half price, he simply said he was making 20g a flask because he grinded the herbs. Didn't realise that they sell for up to 60g aswell and he's screwing the average price. People refuse to pay that for them now. They even bitch in trade if you ask 30g for them. Same flask that sold for 60g without trouble a month ago.

theres about 500 comments right now but ill post anyway (stupied comment on my part). Best proffesion to make is none other than, black smithing. You will always make cash. Whether its a players preist alt wanting to buy a titansteel gaurdian. Or a DK duel weildin Bonecrushers, players need there first epic wepon for thouse heriocs. And were do they go to get a fast and decent epic. A black smith, well if you need a one handed meele mace, a caster mace, a two handed mace, or a dagger youll come to me (haha). Anyway i generally make 3kg a week. yeah a WEEK. so im already about to get my baby mammoth with all this cash. So if your a plate weared dont think twice about black smithing.

How could you even think about calling 1k gold for an item a reasonable price, if 300G still covers the mats. I could understand going for about 500G for that item then, but 1k gold is far from reasonable, its greedy.

The other thing to consider in terms of what cripples AH price is that far more people are simply collecting mats for crafted items and then seeking to tip makers. Part of the reason your crafted items may not sell well is that people buy the mats AND pay the tip for less than what you charge. In that case its not fellow sellers that are doing you wrong, its fellow blacksmiths/alchemists/tailors, etc.

@Arcrise

Nothing you charge is being "greedy" if someone is willing to pay it. Simple truth. No one forces anyone to spend their gold. Something cost more than you're willing to pay? DON'T BUY IT! When I lay down gold for something its cos I want it. NOW. I don't want to wait for cheaper. I have NEVER felt as though I've been ripped off at the AH cos I choose to pay for the items i buy.

As for buy low sell high, There are tons of farmers there selling their stuff to low. I've blown 1000 of golds to keep prices at a reasonable level, buy buying them out and selling them higher. But at some point you just find yourself with no bank space left and still tons of idiots selling stuff to low. Gotta cut your losses and just accept the price then.

To many players that are only comming to end game regions now. And they make their epic mounts faster then yourself simply because they keep selling farmables to low forcing others to take them out and resell at the proper prices, waiting for their return while the low sellers get their money within hours after posting.

Undercutting isn't a problem if you keep something at a similar price level, but some are simply skipping 50% of the price when undercutting. And in turn changing the buyers perspective they see stuff being sold at that price, and in their head that is the right price all of a sudden. And in turn they are postponing their buying till some other idiot comes along selling it to low again.

Im a Enchanter/Tailor myself.
When i go too the AH too buy Greens from level 74-80 there asking buyout Prices for 25G pretty mutch all of them. If i DE them i might get 3 Infinity Dust(7G Each) out of them, and lucky if i get a Greater Cosmic Essence(22G). Myself i dont see only time i buy something is if it's Lower then 10Gold only way i can actualy make a profit or even use for myself too level. But in Cloth Ebon Weave kinda went down a bit but that was expected in time realy there more running around there. With patch 3.1 this should go back up because of the Epic Belt you can make now that require 10Ebonweave and 10MoonCloth i think. But it Seem too me too sell on the AH wait tell the Weekend usaly you have all the ppl that work During the week that doesnt have time too play or Grind come on the weekend and just buy from the AH. Now for under cutting ppl in the AH i dont see a problem there realy, if you going too make a profit of the Item your selling it's all fair and game realy. If you realy want too make money just go farm the stuff you need too make it and that 100% profit, that why they can undercut you buy soo mutch.
If you intead too buy your matts off the AH and try too make a profit good luck with that because that aint gona happen. I make pretty well on gold and playing the AH myself buy Low and Selling High. I saw myself seeing the Market on a certay Matt being very Low and just buy out everything and putting my own price there and keep checking too make sure nobodie beat my price and keep buying it's taking a risk but it paid off for me.

Those are just my thaught on this.

Welcome to markets and basic economics. Seriously, read up on how it works. Having everyone "sell high to make good gold" is a sure recipe for no one having the money to buy anything, and no one being able to sell anything they have. Market-gridlock.

Reading some of these comments are hilarious as well: the number of the economically ignorant is astounding.

Always remember two basic principles: (1) "The value of an item is the amount someone is willing to buy it for, *not* what the seller wants to sell it for." (2) "As a seller, don't sell it if you don't like what's being offered."

In a free market, all economic transactions are win-win by definition. Buyers have to raise their buy amount if no sellers are happy at the low amounts. If a seller or 30 sellers are happy with a low amount and sell, *that* is the worth of the stuff for the transaction.

You cant be serious with this BS etiquette line you are pitching. 1st off, I'am a scribe and herbalist and i havde been making thousands by undercutting each and every card I see. I sold a nobles deck for 8k, thats right 8k.

2nd. Your either very lazy or very stupid if you constantly by your herbs from the ah. i can see if you need that last pigment or so to get the ink but if your buying constantly, your severley cutting into yourown profit. PICK THEM YOURSELF!!! I will undercut everyone because I pick them so its all profit minus my time which is suffice to say, no big deal. While I herb, I chat, gank, get some kills in etc..so no big.

3rd. Iam out for uno numero, the big cheese, the one and only, ME!!! I raid with great etiquette, I have tons of friends and my guild seems to enjoy my company and I take care of my friends and guild mates by giving for free or selling them cards cheap but as far as the masses go, your kidding right.... Unless you want to buy me those sweet titanium weps, purple rings, and very expensive mounts then dont say its bad etiquette to undercut. Welcome to buisness. I have ran a buisness for 13+yrs and granted some competition can be good, to much is devastating. When my competition isnt doing well, Im happy because it means MY mortgage will keep getting paid, my kids will keep getting fed, etc.... Is the "other guy" gonna pay my bills, feed my kids, my dog, my gas etc... HELL NO. NOR SHOULD THEY. Its a dog eat dog world. This isnt friggin sunday school. Life and WOW mimic eachother alot more then people would like to admit. Welcome to the real world. Deal with it. Undercut me and suck it up until the market jumps again and it will, RL and WOW. But FFS, stop the QQing.

4th. Woodle, if your listening, all I can say is lol. :)

Reeper Z:)

Remember when Primal Nethers in tBC where BoP? How much were your crafters charging to make items including them? 'Your mats + 100g Nether fee' ruled the Trade channel. 95g 90g, 85g, etc. prices fluctuated among those numbers from crafters. Then the Nethers became BoE. First few on the AH? 120g. 110g. In two weeks? 60g. In two months? 30g. Point I'm making seems to be summed up by some previous posters. People demand the cheaper price for things and when individuals at an AH are undercut, and often (so a majority of AH searches find that lower price with increased frequency) the server cost of the item just became standardized by that value. Either adapt or never sell at your (now) inflated price.
Suck it up. I really have no respect for anyone who has over 10k gold on their toon and complains about 'losing money' you remind me of real world Corporate CEOs who sit in their plush chairs at expensive offices at the had of giant companies who bitch at another five million in losses while paying off lobbyists and buying up politicians.

Wow! Lots of people need to read BRK's post today.

1. If you don't make enough gold by selling the crafted stuff you make, do something else.

2. WOW has no cost of living, so it's only a question of what your time is worth.

3. Given the state of etiquette in the rest of WOW no one should be surprised by the lack of etiquette surrounding the AH.

Most of the AH prices are a matter of how long the item has existed and how old the server is.

My server is ancient. A stack of copper ore goes for about 80s, netherweave goes for about 3g /stack.

You are incredibly lucky to have prisms decks still selling even NEAR that high. On my server, a deck is 1kg at the most.