Project Lore

I wish people would follow the rule of etiquette as a tailor my purple robes and gloves are selling for about half the values that they used to making it even more impossible to get my epic flight training especially when I'm trying to level enchanting at the same time which I have all but almost given up on and am thinking of switching it out for herbalism or something just so I can make some money

Just wait. Or buy theirs and re-post at something closer to equilibrium price. There is no 'etiquette' on the AH - it's just people wanting to buy low and sell high.

etiquette ? are you living in the real world?

nothing says you HAVE to sell then and there, just horder up, and when prices are up, thats when you sell.

i went from haveing 20 dream shards, i refused to sell @7g each on my realm, by the time they shot up to 30g a go, i had over 200 of them....

Happy Man,

To be honest, undercutting the competition is a marketing strategy. If you can sell, some times at a loss, to ensure a sale of an unpopular or overstocked item, take a lesson from the corporate retail world and slash prices dramatically. You call it etiquette, however you're artificially restricting yourself from making a sale.
I'm a tailor/enchanter, no one knows how bad it is to try to buy raw materials off the AH (1 of the highest quality dust is often posted for several gold alone), and worse is that the items you make (especially tailoring ones) have no resale value unless they're the most epic of crafted goods.
Pre-WotLK but after Inscription was available, there was an absolute glut of herbs on the AH, people snatched up what they could and ground out their level as high as possible. They knew that the end level stuff would sell, as you and your Nobles Decks discovered, and summarily inflated AH prices (supply and demand) to the realms of the ridiculous prices. So, Mr. I sold things for 12k gold, you have no right to complain about having your auctions cut out from under you by someone "after a quick buck" after all, weren't you? (As I doubt you're crafting these decks for your fellow guildies/raid as a courtesy)

This to has caused many of the material professions like mining, skinning, and herbalism. To be much lower then actual value.

You noobs that think your getting head or beating your competition by under cutting are stupid.

Your actually hurting everyone in the process including your dumba** self.

This happens time and time again.

Ex. I put Copper Ore in for 8g(my sever avg.)
1.) you under cut me to 7g
2.) joe undercuts you to 6.75g
3.) noob got a bunch banked and puts 10 stacks
for 6g
Now the buyers expect to get Copper Ore for 6g a stack every time they go to the AH and if not they won't buy.

You have just shot yourself in the foot. GJ

This happened big time with blacksmithing too. Sold my first Spiked Titansteel Helm for 1800g now I'll be lucky if i can give it away for at least 500g. Which barely covers the cost of mats, just not profittable.

I have to heartily disagree with kyndranigar. This isn't something that's just started happening with wotlk (although it's definitely increased dramatically since it came out). This sort of thing happens all the time. Now does supply and demand come into play? of course, if there are 50ppl (for examples sake) on the server putting on over 100 stacks of farmed runecloth on AH is supply out weighing the demand? probably. But let's be serious and talk crafted items we put on AH. I know the frustration spending hours farming mats so i can craft an epic item to sell on the AH. Or spending the gold to buy the mats on AH (which can be very expensive) and then find that after i've put all the gold or hours farming it's undermined by some guy looking for a quick buck. I don't know about everyone else but i refuse to lower my prices too low simply because i'd simply be losing gold. Cost it took to craft an item or the time spent farming mats is worth something right? Not to some apparently.
And because i help out my guildies by crafting them gear for hardly anything (sometimes for free) getting ridiculously underbid at the AH is sometimes just the last straw. Too many Auctions expiring and at that point i'm just losing money to the AH cut.

another great post from a kargath native yea i use to sell Eternal fire for about 50g a piece when wrath first came out now they go for around 30g because of what he describes here of undercutting while undercutting is a necessary thing to get you auctions sold people now do it to often so the economy crashes

Sounds more like you don't know how to run a "business". You missed an opprotunity to buy up a cheap item and sell it for profit. This way you protect the market price and make a profit (all be it less of a profit than your own item). The only problem most players have is having enough gold to do this, but you said you had 10K.

you're supposed buy the 200g one and resell it.

That's call buy low sell high. =)

I enjoy the professions aspect of WoW a lot. Many of my alts have been started simply to fill holes in my profession stable. One of my most profitable alts is a JC/Enchanter. It's amazing how much money can be made. I've fallen foul of undercutting just as much as anyone else. Like most people who play WoW and enjoy messing with the economy I won't undercut most times. I often post at the same buyout as other people do (I may undercut their bid price a little).
There's two things to remember about the economy that WoW supports.
1. Goods will sell for as much as people are willing to pay. This is the rule that governs high prices after expansions and new items.
2. Goods will sell for a low as the Seller values them.

While I'm not a fan of undercutting the truth is that people value goods differently. Some people may not understand the concept of Opportunity Cost. This may lead them to farm their own mats and sell their products at a lower rate. They still fell they are making money, and in fact they are. They may not be making as much as they could of if they sold just the mats, but that's the difference between people who undercut and those who don't.

I guess I don't understand where this "AH Etiquette" idea came from. People will sell goods for what they think it is worth. That is their choice. I don't agree with the prices they choose, but I deal with it.

@ Tehdead
What you just said is absolutely total bullshit.
The only point you're proving is that you're greedy and too lazy to grind for the mats. You should not forget that the only "cost" to gathered mats is time... aka its free stuff, so there is no "actual" value.

Your socalled 'Noob' has just been running around doing his/her quests and gathering mats while at it (thus working for what he wants) and manages to get some gold out of it.

If you want to make gold out of something, market smart, not greedy. Low selling might eventually make you more gold than keeping it high and having it in your mailbag everytime your auction runs out.
And buyers won't expect things to be at a fixed cost at the AH, they'll just be happy when its cheap, and bummed when its pricey, but they will always buy... they'll still need the stuff, no matter if its high or low.
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As far as the "market-etiquette", thats an absolute non-existant idea. Nobody plays nice when gold/money is involved, and complaining about it is not the best solution.

Either compete the prices or wait for "better" times. If something CAN be sold for 200G (and still make profit, however small that is), and you (want to) sell it for 500G+, that only means you are kinda pretty much way overpriced.

But hey... thats just what I think ;)

Arcrise
BDF (EU)

"It’s called etiquette or common courtesy to respect other people’s auctions so we can all make money."

The flaw in this statement is that you think "we can all make money" and that is only true where demand outweighs supply. And if that is the case then there is no need to lower your price on your Ace of Undeath to 200g, because after his cheap auction is bought there will still be more demand for your 500g auction.

But if there are more Aces of Undeath for auction then people willing to buy them, then the only way you have a reasonable expectation of selling your Ace of Undeath is for you to undercut your competition.

Prices ultimately fluctuate with supply and demand. If someone grossly undercuts your auction then that is a perfect time for you to buy it and repost it at the price you think it should be. If the demand is there then you'll make a good profit at your price, if the demand is not there, and it doesn't sell at the "proper price" then that bastard who undercut you was probably selling it at a more realistic price then you were.

You really need to have a better understanding of economics and the WoW economy before making a post like this.

"Seeing this travesty my competitor and I are now forced to lower our price to beat his rediculous price"

Wait until his sells, then relist at your normal price.

If you insist on undercutting the undercutters, all you do is feed the downward spiral.

@ Arcrise

WOW I'm sorry I don't sit at home and collect welfare all day, just like when I get payed at work I get payed for my time.

My time isn't worthless, maybe yours is. So when I go out of my way to get materials there not free there worth there value AND my time.

Sorry but in WoW and in real life nothing is gained without a cost.

My only rebuttal is that while I agree that undercutting is a way of life with the AH for the most part players are respective. This has nothing to do buy low sell high. It has to do with farming from ahem, outside sources. Recently I've been whispered by a level 1 warrior asking me if I want to buy adder's tongue cheaper then the auction house. This has happened 3 days in a row. So what's happening is farmers are not just going for gold sales any more. They are gathering up materials selling them cheaper then AH or creating items that would normally sell higher and are taking a quick profit rather then wait it out for a proper sale.

Because of this most people are suffering. It is killing the economy. But when these people list the item continuously for the same low price it becomes difficult to sell. Why would I buy them low and sell high when they just keep going lower in price with their items to stock their gold reserves.

I can't assume EVERY person that makes a massive price cut is a farmer but they could be following suit and thus contributing to the problem. I also saw mentioned that making drastic price cuts is the corporate way....keep in mind that corporate ways are also what's killing the smaller businesses that can't afford to do that. Doesn't mean they didn't work just as hard if not harder to make the same item.

If someone is undercutting me by 200g I will definitely buy them out and re-list both of them, usually putting one of mine at a discount over another. The best thing I can do for my business as a tailor/chanter is learn as many patterns/formulas as possible so that people come to me to get their supplies instead of anyone else. It's called the long tail people!

"But when these people list the item continuously for the same low price it becomes difficult to sell. Why would I buy them low and sell high when they just keep going lower in price with their items to stock their gold reserves."

It doesn't seem difficult for the undercutters to sell their items if they are stocking their gold reserves. Why don't you sell at that price and stock your gold reserves instead?

I'm sorry if you are not making the profit you think you "should" make. But the AH prices are based on supply and demand. Obviously in the markets you are looking at there is more supply than demand, so only the cheapest auctions sell.

When I put up stuff that sells well and regularly (prof mats or eternals usually) I actually take a gamble and put mine for 1-2g higher than the lowest price. Eventually the lowest priced items will get bought out, and my higher priced ones will become the new low price, and get bought.

Again a gamble. If hundreds of people decide to put the same item up cutting the prices repeatedly and mine get lost in a sea of pages, no luck for me. However, this has happened very, very few times.

"It doesn’t seem difficult for the undercutters to sell their items if they are stocking their gold reserves. Why don’t you sell at that price and stock your gold reserves instead?"

That's all fine and good when you have several people playing one account and farming and pumping out items like an assembly line. As for most players myself included who work hard to sell an item for the true value of the work and time invested we want what we deserve.

Also, there is also a limit to how low I will price something. If I know it's worth more, but going for much, much less, I wont sell it, it goes into my bank, or I help a friend out.

Possibly not too smart, as I will now make NO money, instead of less than what I would like, but when I see something I feel is worth 100g, but is only selling for 40g, I die a little inside.

Dumb idea. im happy when someone sells me stuff for cheep. what pisses me off is when things you need lots of are sold in stacks of one. What the hell am i doing with 1 frostweave cloth?

In fairness there are addons that do this automatically (undercut). You put up something, I come after you with an addon that searches out prices for me and provides me with a price most likely for ME to sell my goods. If I have more than one of those items it will automatically create the additional auctions. Someone comes after me using the similar addon, same thing happens. It's the way it is. Most times my stuff sells and if it doesn't I understand I can't always sell at the price I want.

I have never disagreed with a Project Lore article as much as this one.

Yes, I have sold some things for 500g and then come along later to find someone selling theirs for much less and mine doesn't end up selling. SO WHAT? This is how economies work. Supply and demand.

Sometimes people underprice things for a quick sale. Let them. If it sells fast, then it's off the listings and you can go back to selling at 500g. If it keeps selling low, then you should find some other big moneymaker.

Seriously, Valaar...could you QQ more?

Oh! And to the author of this blog: thank you ever so much for saying scribe, and not:

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