Rogue Advice and Priest Tips For Patch 3.1
Posted by 
iTZKooPA on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 14 Comments Tags: Priest, Rogue, holy healing spec, leveling specs, mutilate spec, patch v3.1 specs, poison changes, pve specs, secrets of ulduar, shadow leveling spec
iTZKooPA on Friday, April 17, 2009 - 14 Comments Tags: Priest, Rogue, holy healing spec, leveling specs, mutilate spec, patch v3.1 specs, poison changes, pve specs, secrets of ulduar, shadow leveling spec 
Patches are always such hard work. When I head that Secrets of Ulduar was coming this Tuesday, I instantly budgeted extra time into my game playing schedule. The catch was that it wouldn't be used for actually playing World of Warcraft. All the changes to the MMORPG's core mechanics meant that I would need to do a whole lot of research to perfect my toons. Sure, I could have done some ahead of time by using the PTR information, but I hate conducting experiments based on unfinalized data. Over the past 48+ hours, I have spent every free moment I had to check on spec, gear, gem, and enchant changes. There was also that Dual Spec thing to consider. Who would have thought that a game could be so overwhelming sometimes?
I know I try to be a bit general on my tips, but things are going to have to be granular for the time being. Perhaps Hearthbourne or Pixiestixy can weigh in with specific Combat/Subtley advice, because I will be focusing on the changes to Mutilate (although some tips are applicable across the board), and what the poison loving rogues need to know to keep their DPS rocking.
Let's start off with the basics, the re-tweaked Mutilate spec, which really isn't that different from pre-v3.1. The main points of contention are the selection of Close Quarters Combat over Turn the Tables, and your Major Glyphs. From the theorycrafting I have been privy to, CQC will lend an approximate .6% increase in damage over TtT. A drastically simplified explanation is that CQC will always grant you 3% critical strike increase, while TtT only adds its 6% critical strike buff to combo point generating moves, under certain circumstance, and for a limited time. The randomness of TtT's benefits happen to be its downfall.
I've seen a few different setups for Glyphs, but to me, HfB, Mutilate and Rupture are the best choices for raiding rogues. Sure, Garrote is nice, but you should be using Rupture far more frequently. Envenom and Feint are useless since you can get that stack of poisons up in no time, and you always have Vanish. I am tempted to give Fan of Knives a go in the future. I do a fair amount of overall damage with my AOE spell (I hate the new graphic), so adding 20% to it may be worth it, even if FoK is incredibly situational.
Outside of our spec, the most important thing to be aware of are the changes to poisons. First off, our Deadly Poisons now generate 12% of their damage from our Attack Power, up from 8%. The game changer for us is that poisons are no longer simply chance to apply. As of Tuesday they are now under the procs-per-minute frequency model. That modification nerfs the previous bread and butter of fast daggers because they can no longer apply more poisons than their slower counterparts. Due to the change, Mutilate rogues should go back to slow main hand daggers in order to maximize the damage of Mutilate. However, don't toss that speedy blade to a vendor just yet. Fast daggers are still recommended in your offhand for Deadly Poison applications (Instant Poison should now be on your MH weapon) and Focused Attacks.
What about gems and enchants you ask? Assuming that you have meet the hit cap and expertise cap, you should put your gems towards agility and your enchants towards attack power. Feel free to leave additional tips! Pooled knowledge is a good thing. Enjoy smashing faces.
I may come off as a bit of a know-it-all when it comes to rogues (or at least my spec), but I have been playing the class since beta. On the flip side, I have only been seriously playing a priest since I signed up a friend for the Refer-A-Friend promotion. My spacegoat remains at level 70, but I have slowly, very slowly, been leveling her. With Dual Spec now available, I foresee her hitting level 80 in the near future thanks to her new achievement. This is where you priests come in, I need help with my specs yet again. I've settled on this Shadow-based build for leveling (obviously). On the healing side of the tree I went with a regen-heavy Holy spec that is very close to the spec Solidsagart rolled with pre-v3.1. The healing spec is currently for 5-man, but will need to be tweaked for raids down the road. Any and all pointers are appreciated.
On a more general note, Naxxramas was completely playable last night. Assuming we can get Naxxramas done in two days next week, we should be venturing into Ulduar. I've also started my Argent Tournament dailies, expect a report on that next week. How's the patch treating you now?
Rogue Tips
I know I try to be a bit general on my tips, but things are going to have to be granular for the time being. Perhaps Hearthbourne or Pixiestixy can weigh in with specific Combat/Subtley advice, because I will be focusing on the changes to Mutilate (although some tips are applicable across the board), and what the poison loving rogues need to know to keep their DPS rocking.
Let's start off with the basics, the re-tweaked Mutilate spec, which really isn't that different from pre-v3.1. The main points of contention are the selection of Close Quarters Combat over Turn the Tables, and your Major Glyphs. From the theorycrafting I have been privy to, CQC will lend an approximate .6% increase in damage over TtT. A drastically simplified explanation is that CQC will always grant you 3% critical strike increase, while TtT only adds its 6% critical strike buff to combo point generating moves, under certain circumstance, and for a limited time. The randomness of TtT's benefits happen to be its downfall.
I've seen a few different setups for Glyphs, but to me, HfB, Mutilate and Rupture are the best choices for raiding rogues. Sure, Garrote is nice, but you should be using Rupture far more frequently. Envenom and Feint are useless since you can get that stack of poisons up in no time, and you always have Vanish. I am tempted to give Fan of Knives a go in the future. I do a fair amount of overall damage with my AOE spell (I hate the new graphic), so adding 20% to it may be worth it, even if FoK is incredibly situational.
Outside of our spec, the most important thing to be aware of are the changes to poisons. First off, our Deadly Poisons now generate 12% of their damage from our Attack Power, up from 8%. The game changer for us is that poisons are no longer simply chance to apply. As of Tuesday they are now under the procs-per-minute frequency model. That modification nerfs the previous bread and butter of fast daggers because they can no longer apply more poisons than their slower counterparts. Due to the change, Mutilate rogues should go back to slow main hand daggers in order to maximize the damage of Mutilate. However, don't toss that speedy blade to a vendor just yet. Fast daggers are still recommended in your offhand for Deadly Poison applications (Instant Poison should now be on your MH weapon) and Focused Attacks.
What about gems and enchants you ask? Assuming that you have meet the hit cap and expertise cap, you should put your gems towards agility and your enchants towards attack power. Feel free to leave additional tips! Pooled knowledge is a good thing. Enjoy smashing faces.
In Need Of Priest Tips
I may come off as a bit of a know-it-all when it comes to rogues (or at least my spec), but I have been playing the class since beta. On the flip side, I have only been seriously playing a priest since I signed up a friend for the Refer-A-Friend promotion. My spacegoat remains at level 70, but I have slowly, very slowly, been leveling her. With Dual Spec now available, I foresee her hitting level 80 in the near future thanks to her new achievement. This is where you priests come in, I need help with my specs yet again. I've settled on this Shadow-based build for leveling (obviously). On the healing side of the tree I went with a regen-heavy Holy spec that is very close to the spec Solidsagart rolled with pre-v3.1. The healing spec is currently for 5-man, but will need to be tweaked for raids down the road. Any and all pointers are appreciated.
On a more general note, Naxxramas was completely playable last night. Assuming we can get Naxxramas done in two days next week, we should be venturing into Ulduar. I've also started my Argent Tournament dailies, expect a report on that next week. How's the patch treating you now?
Reader Comments (14)
Who is Hearthbourne :3
I'm not quite convinced on TtT being inferior to CQC. TtT is very situational; encounters with lots of adds will proc TtT a lot, making it hard to model. Overall, its not a huge difference either way.
Also, I kind of want to test Glyph of Envenom out a bit before I pass a judgment on it. Depending on how Mutilate crits go with Seal Fate and also Ruthlessness, especially with Glyph of Mutilate, those stacks of Deadly Poison could be eaten up quite quickly and possibly not proc fast enough relative to CP generation to get Envenom off on a 5 stack of Deadly when you want it to. I don't know how much using Glyph of Envenom to remedy this will outweigh the damage lost from something like Glyph of Rupture; I imagine it is going to have to do with how high your crit and AP is; the higher crit, the more valuable Glyph of Envenom is since you will get CP faster, but higher AP makes Glyph of Garrote more viable. I need to get my hands on these glyphs to do the testing, its all theoretical at the moment.
Wow. Just wow, here I am trying to give you a shout out and I botch your name. What a donkey I am. Sorry about that.
You're right, lots of testing needs to be done before we can pass concrete judgement. As far as CQC vs TtT goes, I'd much rather the guranteed crit over the chance at having additional crit. Chance being the key difference. It's the same reason I have always disliked all the Use trinkets, I want consistency. At a rumored .6% DPS difference, we can almost chalk that up to personal preference.
You bring up a fantastic point with the Envenom glyph and how a rogue's AP vs Crit will change its importance. If I could edit the post I'd add that note - right after fixing your name...
I would suggest starting with the following (at level 64) for a Priest Shadow leveling spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#bVcbhZZGxfVRfzcfocz:hqI
I would then add points into Shadow Power and Twisted Faith, balancing between whether you're geared more for spirit or crit. Inner Focus is (always) nice if you have the point available for it. Pain and Suffering is useful if you're leveling up doing longer fights (like instances or group quests).
As for general advice, I'd suggest looking at the Glyph of Shadow Word: Pain (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42415), and perhaps the Glyph of Power Word: Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=42408) if you forgo Imp Vampiric Embrace (or don't cast VE at all).
interesting points brought up on the mutilate spec and glyph changes. My rogue has unfortunately been ignored of late and with 3.1 out likely to be shoved back in the closet till i get other toons spec-d and experimented with.
In 3.1 the change with mana regen (well the 40% mana regen nerf in otherwords) has been an interesting new challenge for my resto shammy and my holy priest. But blizz has upped the amount of mana and health granted by totems and talents for us healers (i'll find out soon enough if it makes up any difference) but until my guilds ulduar run this weekend it'll be hard to see what real changes need to be made in healing gameplay.
I am playing around with the glyphs and spec's as well. I still believe Assassination, err a, mutilate will be the best raid spec. I was trying to compare the envenom vs. eviscerate glyph they may be closer now, again, something to play with.
I will say that I prefer the Combat spec for farming and questing/dailies. Being able to grab a pack of critters (mammoths being my favorite), popping evasion and using blade flurry + killing spree, then pop adrenaline rush to spam Fan of Knifes is great fun. (skin/LW FTW) Man dual spec is nice.
I am not sure about hemo builds. If I did more PvP I would. Guess that will come sooner or later, I really enjoy PvE and running intances/dungeons/raids whatever you want to call them.
Anyway, thanks for the post will have to check back and see how what you find out with your testing.
Well first of all you need Gaurdian spirit especially with the new gylph out for it. Then depending on what your mana regen is you may want to drop mana tide. Also Improved Power Word: Shied is really only needed if you don't raid with a disc priest and are in charge of MT heals.
I think specs are like fine wine, they only get better with age. (Stupid cliche, I know).... But as the patch neared, I didn't do much research until the servers went down... I looked at the new talents and I like to build my own spec, without looking at others, and THEN go back and compare. What I'm seeing as my spec for Holy, is actually close to some of the more "hardcore" raiding priests over the last two days... Healing is my main spec, and I've just recently gotten excited about dps with shadow... Feel free to look at my holy spec, and see if it works for you... This is also built for the way I heal... I'm heavy on the renew, even as a holy priest, generally assigned to raid heals, I excel at MT healing, and like it, but I'm not partial to the disc tree.
Typical top 3 heals:
Renew
Prayer of Mending
Flash Heal (or CoH depending on the fight)
Now with the "Empowered renew" talent, it deals instant heal, the HoT and and increase to the HoT... amazing!
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Boulderfist&n=Svenofnine&group=1
No, I didn't take serendipity, I wasn't keen on the change they made to it, as someone who MT heals a little more than most Holy Priests. My Egg of Mortal Essence procs so much that the haste there is enough for me to like... I might respec into Serendipity as I raid more into the new content.
I DO always recommend to skip over Healing Focus, and I cringe when I see people with it at 80.... You're in a raid, you shouldn't be taking damage like this anyways! Yeah, you get some, but trust your tanks to do their job, and there is no need for wasted points in this talent. Good luck, and let us know how everything works out!
-Svenofnine
US Boulderfist
Hi I have been playing a Holy priest since I started the game (But I will not call myself an expert). I have some ideas for you. The build you made is good. I would just point out the I am kinda glad to see you didn't take Guardian spirit. The graphics are cool but I do see if working much, but that is just me. I like Serendipity it procs a lot more now and is nice to have. I have not had holy reach for a while and donot really miss it so I use those points in Serendipity. I also have not taken my points that far into Discipline I just use the Meditaion and finish Holy. Of course that is just me.
Now if you wanted Discipline that is a whole nother story! It is fun. Try it. There is also a nice priest website. Worldofmatticus.com Can I advertisve other site here. It will give SOME ideas. It is heavy on raiding so maybe that is what your looking for.
Red
By the way Svenofnine nice post :)
Thats a decent five man build there. If you're lookin to tweak it for ten or twenty five mans you will want guardian spirit me thinks. 40% increased healing is sexy. Not to mention when you get your gear up and you crit for 29k the smile you put on the tank's face. Also with the new glyph if your tank doesn't "trigger" the spirit when he dies the cool down is reduced to one minute. 40% increased healing every minute is ballin as hell.
Also if your going to invest in healing prayers you might like serendipity. Blizzards trying to make us use flash heal more which is fail since its mana inefficient, but it will help when you need to get off a quick PoH. I think it can get down to 1.5 sec cast with full serendipity.
Also depending on your group you'll want to change tweak between Power word shield and renew. I personally don't spec into shield but thats because i have a bad ass disc priest with me. If you dont have a druid with you you'll want to max out renew fo sho as well.
Happy Healin
Doog
For my rogue I am from now on combat-fist specced with Calmitys Grasp MH and Hailstorm OH. A link to my spec:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0eb0xZMgVoxcxoru0xRtx:fhu
Well, I will say that if you are a 51/13/7 Mutilate rogue you have a nice mini-buff if you choose the right glyphs.
Glyphs: HfB, Mutilate, and Rupture
Generally I have found that with the new changes to Master poisoner you can drop Turn the Tables in favor of Master poisoner. I was steadily keeping 5 stacks on the target for 6k envenom dings. This also keeps my SnD running at full tick so I only have to concetrate on rupture for bleed (HfB) and mutilate. I have seen my dps go up by 400 to 700 from these changes.
Welcome changes that put rogues back in the dps race.
Oh heres a tip for OS. Put Anesthetic Poison II on your Blades during final boss. It works WONDERS with all those enraged adds later in the fight. Saw the hunters and mages guarding the healers getting overwhelmed with enraged adds so I run back and pop FoK several times. All 15 adds un-enraged and the Mages and Hunters made short work of them. Good to know rogues are the rage masters. :)
Great read but few things off in your rogue part up there. You shouldn't be comparing choosing TotT over CQC or vice versa. What you should be deciding on is choosing Master Poisoner over TotT, even if you have another class bringing that buff to the table, since it doesn't stack with pally's debuff or at least it didn't, for you since it ups your deadly poison procs from envenom buff. And you said above that you should have deadly on MH, i don't know if that was a typo or what, but since deadly is not ppm and instant is, you should be going instant mh/deadly oh with slow/fast weapons. i can't remember the exact mechanics behind it but to make it simple, ppm poisons favor the slower weapons, you have a better chance to proc with a 1.8 over a 1.4 even though in theory they proc the same amount of times no matter what, but that is not the truth, or something like that, i am not a wiz on the numbers, i just know what i have read about it and slower is better for the ppm procs. but still a good read, keep up the good work yall!!!!
I'm not sure why you guys are lacking MP already. If you look at my build it already includes MP. I've found the debate to be between TtT or CQC.
As for the where a Mutilate rogues poisons should be, Instant Poison should indeed be in your MH and Deadly Poison in your (fast) OH. I will try to get the post fixed so it is up to date and accurate.