Blue Stew 9/10/09: Bestial Wrath? More like Bestial Whimper!
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Amatera on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 16 Comments Tags: PvP, arena, battlegrounds, bestial wrath, ghostcrawler, hunters, the beast within
Amatera on Thursday, September 10, 2009 - 16 Comments Tags: PvP, arena, battlegrounds, bestial wrath, ghostcrawler, hunters, the beast within
Blue Stew is a new semi-daily column bringing you a delicious concoction of developer news, thoughts, and opinions straight from the boiling pot that is the official World of Warcraft forums. The highlights of each day include additional commentary by Project Lore staff.
Yesterday was 9/9/09, guys and gals. An important date in history, and not only for its numerical symmetry! If you hadn't heard yet, it was the day that The Beatles made their triumphant return (as if they could ever, truly, go away). Not only was The Beatles: Rock Band released, but so was the entire remastered album collection. It also marked the 10-year anniversary of the Dreamcast console, arguably the gaming console with the most concentrated amount of awesome in the history of the medium. It didn't last very long, but it really blazed some trails while it did.
So what about the forums? Well, they're still kind of reeling from the long weekend, sadly, but there's at least one indication it's back on the road to recovery: Ghostcrawler is posting again! And, thanks to some data-mined PTR patch notes, he's got a helluva Hunter problem to deal with...
Bestial Wrath Change
Flies from your glaive!
According to the new PTR build, the BM Hunter skill "Bestial Wrath" is undergoing some modifications. This "last ditch" technique is being reduced to from 18 seconds to 10. It's companion skill, "The Beast Within," is getting a similar reduction, but now also increases the Hunter's damage by 10% for the duration. It seems as though the primary justification for this change is as follows (according to Ghostcrawler):
Of course, this change is based mostly on the class' Arena performance. Not specifically that they're good or bad (according to many, Hunters have been nearly shut out from Arena teams altogether), but rather that this particular skill doesn't fit in with Blizzard's philosophy on how Arena should work. In and of itself, it may be one of the Hunter's most powerful PvP abilities, but leaving it alone simply due to poor overall class performance is not fixing the problem. That's to say you don't give a diabetic kid a candy bar just to make him feel better.
The way I understand it, Blizzard just doesn't want Hunters relying on "Bestial Wrath" so much, and more positive changes that could offset this nerf, and bring up BM-spec DPS and utility in other ways, will come later. Besides, GC let slip that, even though it's not on the new tooltip yet, "Bestial Wrath" also breaks CC when activated. Let's remember, folks, that this is all still on the PTR. These things aren't final and who knows if they'll even make it to the live servers. Nonetheless, that didn't stop the forums from exploding with complaints.
Morobir can't remember where he left his keys and is planning on suing the car company for making such hard-to-find keys. It turns out he simply can't stand that 10% of the population that can go anywhere they want anytime they want just because they have such an easy time staying organized! He rages on the "Bestial Wrath" subject as such:
Now, I am not the most preeminent Arena player in the game. In fact, I've admitted before that I have next to no experience with it. And you know why? Because it's quite involved, it takes a lot of effort to gear up and learn different sorts of strategies in order to compete. A stupid little mini-game, I think not! Even if I'm not a fan, I can see that much. But I honestly expected such complaints to come from someone who favors PvE combat, not a fellow PvP player.
Methinks Morobir doesn't quite understand the more flexible nature of Battlegrounds, and Ghostcrawler seems to agree:
Indeed, it seems rare that changes to a single skill are going to drastically affect your performance in a Battleground. There are simply too many other factors to consider, from the macro (how did your whole team do) to the micro (were your key skills on cooldown?). Arena matches don't last nearly as long, and you're probably going to find yourself using skills like "Bestial Wrath" only once over the duration. Unless Morobir is one of those "special" people who run around worrying solely about their DPS and Honor Kills instead of actually helping their team capture points and win. Hunters may able to rely on themselves in the wild, but in the middle of a war, they better learn some teamwork!
Anyway, I think that's quite enough for this edition of Blue Stew. Sure, I only covered one subject today, but it's an awfully meaty one, and it's most certainly the topic du jour on the official forums. I'd really like to see the Hunters chime in on this one. I might've gone a little harsh on Mr. Morobir there, but I know there are a lot more level-headed folks out there that can perhaps clarify just how they think they'll be affected by the changes to "Bestial Wrath." The floor is yours!
Yesterday was 9/9/09, guys and gals. An important date in history, and not only for its numerical symmetry! If you hadn't heard yet, it was the day that The Beatles made their triumphant return (as if they could ever, truly, go away). Not only was The Beatles: Rock Band released, but so was the entire remastered album collection. It also marked the 10-year anniversary of the Dreamcast console, arguably the gaming console with the most concentrated amount of awesome in the history of the medium. It didn't last very long, but it really blazed some trails while it did.
So what about the forums? Well, they're still kind of reeling from the long weekend, sadly, but there's at least one indication it's back on the road to recovery: Ghostcrawler is posting again! And, thanks to some data-mined PTR patch notes, he's got a helluva Hunter problem to deal with...
Bestial Wrath Change
Flies from your glaive!According to the new PTR build, the BM Hunter skill "Bestial Wrath" is undergoing some modifications. This "last ditch" technique is being reduced to from 18 seconds to 10. It's companion skill, "The Beast Within," is getting a similar reduction, but now also increases the Hunter's damage by 10% for the duration. It seems as though the primary justification for this change is as follows (according to Ghostcrawler):
"It should be no surprise to anyone who has been on these boards for long that we're trying to chill out abilities that convey offensive and defensive bonuses with the same button press. At the same time, BM damage was a little low and too dependent on the pet. With this change, hopefully, Bestial Wrath becomes more of a defensive ability while taking Beast Within will boost hunter (and just the hunter) damage at all times."
Of course, this change is based mostly on the class' Arena performance. Not specifically that they're good or bad (according to many, Hunters have been nearly shut out from Arena teams altogether), but rather that this particular skill doesn't fit in with Blizzard's philosophy on how Arena should work. In and of itself, it may be one of the Hunter's most powerful PvP abilities, but leaving it alone simply due to poor overall class performance is not fixing the problem. That's to say you don't give a diabetic kid a candy bar just to make him feel better.
The way I understand it, Blizzard just doesn't want Hunters relying on "Bestial Wrath" so much, and more positive changes that could offset this nerf, and bring up BM-spec DPS and utility in other ways, will come later. Besides, GC let slip that, even though it's not on the new tooltip yet, "Bestial Wrath" also breaks CC when activated. Let's remember, folks, that this is all still on the PTR. These things aren't final and who knows if they'll even make it to the live servers. Nonetheless, that didn't stop the forums from exploding with complaints.
Morobir can't remember where he left his keys and is planning on suing the car company for making such hard-to-find keys. It turns out he simply can't stand that 10% of the population that can go anywhere they want anytime they want just because they have such an easy time staying organized! He rages on the "Bestial Wrath" subject as such:
"Thanks. Thanks so much for basing all your balancing decisions on a stupid mini-game that 90% of WoW players don't play and don't care about.
Now that you've nerfed my spec. into the ground I can go into battlegrounds and get completely destroyed while everyone counters all 10 seconds of my Bestial Wrath. That will be so much fun. I could go in untalented and not do much worse."
Now, I am not the most preeminent Arena player in the game. In fact, I've admitted before that I have next to no experience with it. And you know why? Because it's quite involved, it takes a lot of effort to gear up and learn different sorts of strategies in order to compete. A stupid little mini-game, I think not! Even if I'm not a fan, I can see that much. But I honestly expected such complaints to come from someone who favors PvE combat, not a fellow PvP player.
Methinks Morobir doesn't quite understand the more flexible nature of Battlegrounds, and Ghostcrawler seems to agree:
"Most of the PvP discussions in these forums tend to focus on Arena balance because frankly that's what most of the participants here seem interested in discussing. If I had to guess, it's because you are constantly running into BG situations in which class balance makes very little difference, say the other team was smarter with how they handled the flags. Or maybe you just plain went up against 20 opponents at once, in which even our most naive posters don't really expect their 51-point talent or whatever to be able to save them... Perhaps Arenas just shine a harsher light on class balance than do BGs."
Indeed, it seems rare that changes to a single skill are going to drastically affect your performance in a Battleground. There are simply too many other factors to consider, from the macro (how did your whole team do) to the micro (were your key skills on cooldown?). Arena matches don't last nearly as long, and you're probably going to find yourself using skills like "Bestial Wrath" only once over the duration. Unless Morobir is one of those "special" people who run around worrying solely about their DPS and Honor Kills instead of actually helping their team capture points and win. Hunters may able to rely on themselves in the wild, but in the middle of a war, they better learn some teamwork!
Anyway, I think that's quite enough for this edition of Blue Stew. Sure, I only covered one subject today, but it's an awfully meaty one, and it's most certainly the topic du jour on the official forums. I'd really like to see the Hunters chime in on this one. I might've gone a little harsh on Mr. Morobir there, but I know there are a lot more level-headed folks out there that can perhaps clarify just how they think they'll be affected by the changes to "Bestial Wrath." The floor is yours!
Reader Comments (16)
first?
Well, on my hunter main, i pretty much rely soley on beast within to stay alive. With rouges and paladins trying to stun lock me all the time, it's pretty much the only thing i can do to keep away from them. So i am upset that they are reducing the time, but it does make sense. I can see why they want to make it more of a defensive ability instead of a offensive one. though, if they increased the Cooldown on it i would be right pissed off.
hellz yeah, first!
anyways, i do the hunting and am glad that at least my bw still breaks the cc.
i'm comfortable in the bg, so long as i don't rely on my 51 point talent to save the @ss when i go up against 20 baddies.
Feeling rather mixed in regards to this matter, so I guess only time will tell...
Just want to point out. While the tooltip may be confusing, its been confirmed by GC that the 10% Damage Bonus from Beast Within is Passive
As in. YOU ALWAYS HAVE IT
YO when are you gana make your next film?
I stopped playing bm at the end of tbc sonyhis matter doesn't effect me at all, though one of the other hunters in my guild raids as bm so i doubt he will be happy.
I think it is a dumb change. The only time this skill was over powered was when you could spec into readiness and use it on your beast within skill. I guess we will see in due time.
When are pallies and dks going to get hit hard with the nerf bat? They are long overdue.
Im a BM hunter. I roll that way because I like BM and the exotic pets and BW is a big part of making BM worth playing. I roll BM even though 90% of the lvl 80 hunters I see are Sv and using Wolves. I roll BM even though every forum you go to says MM and SV are superior to Bm for raid DPS. I have tweaked my spec thru countless hours of testing all differnt glyphs, specs. trinkets, gems, you name it. And my DPS is as good and sometimes better than other similar geared SV hunters I roll with until we get into 25 man raids and then the Sv guys damage scales better than mine. BM needs a damage buff if they want anyone to play that class at all. I do get tired of Blizz basing so many changes on arena and PVP QQ. I would guess 70% of their subscribers dont even step into an arena match. Hard to understand how they decide these things. The warrior class is the worst. They have been nerfed ito the ground to the point that unless you are Ulduar geared you are the worst mele DPS class in the game. Its laughable. PVP warriors are goin into the Prot tree because there at least they have stuns and suviveability. Arms and Fury warriors hit like a little girl. Remember when a warrior was feared? Not anymore.
That being said this change should increase my raid DPS from what Im reading. 10% increased damage all the time? Is that right? I thought 3.2 was already live? Maybe I missed something. I guess we will have to wait and see on this one. Man I hope they dont nerf my BM tree anymore. Im already a minority among hunters.
is this site dead now? where are all the videos?
It appears to be. For lack of interest. Shame too I was looking forward to watching the guys do all the heroic TOC and TOC 10 man and 25 mans. Hope Alex wasnt looking for a "Streamy" award this year. :o(
I agree with Rhino regarding additional nerfs to BM spec. I have literally been kicked out of pug groups because the leader will check my spec and say something like "sorry man but BM can't cut it...if you can't dual spec into something else I gotta kick you." The first time that happend was a very harsh reality check for me. I like BM because I LOVE hunting and taming the exotic pets (Skoll FTW!). It makes little sense to me that regular pets out dps exotic ones. I keep hearing that there is supposed to be a fix for this that will up the exotic pet dps but I have yet to notice any change. I mean seriously, if exotic pets aren't stronger, than doesn't BM have the worst 51 point talent in the game? I think the 10% passive damage increase is a step in the right direction but, come on Blizz, MAKE MY EXOTIC PET HIT HARDER!!!
As for the PL site, I still keep coming here. Hoping against hope that there will be some new videos up. Who knows, maybe the guys got burned out and if they did, I can't blame them. All I know is that I, like so many others, LOVED watching the PL crew tackle new dungeons and loved listening to the spontenaity of their in-game babble. HOPEFULLY, the crew does come back.
I don't think the OP realises that this is the only viability a BM hunter has in arena. Let alone PvE in which BM dps is worse than any other DPS spec.
BM is my favourite hunter spec.
But in Survival and Marks I way out DPS my BM tree.
In fact I out DPS other BM hunters in the guild, who have similar, or better gear, appropriate gems (AP instead of SV's Agi, or MM's Agi/Arp) and I massively out DPS them, and these are people I've raided with for years, who all know how to play a hunter, and have played them since pre-tbc (one of them even has the spell power set they had for when Arcane shot scaled with SP :P)
Frankly, this is not a positive change for BM hunters, the fact that a Hunter is next to useless when it comes to kiting players nowadays (lol, death grip), if the melee players know how to play their class. And also, a hunter is usually the first target (least from the 2v2's I've done with a rogue, a mage, a dk and a enh shaman) we haven't got a hope in hell of surviving, the fact that BM is like using a pea shooter. With an angry wolf, taking the angry wolf out of it makes it even more useless.
Really, they shouldn't remove a defensive AND offensive cooldown (well not remove, but nerf it to the ground) unless they have a buff that outweighs it, especially nerfing a spec that really, can't get much worse.
/wall of text
@Rhinochaser,
Yes 3.2 is Live, but 3.2.2 is on PTR and has been since about a week or so after 3.2 went Live. That's what every1 is referrin to in regards to the PTR.
I've always seen BM as a good thing to have in 25 man raids, because of the 3% increase damage to all party and raid members. I could care less if a survival hunter beat me by 1K dps because you add 1.8K dps just with the 3% increase. The 1.8K is off of if 20 people are doing on average 3K dps. I guess it's still a bummer that the raid only needs one BM hunter, but it's still something. The 10% increase at all times is pretty sweet too, I don't like relying only on my pet for dps, just keep it alive for the 3% increase. People are talking that they can't get away from DK and rogues, well every spec is not meant for PvP, when have you seen a good Fire Mage in arenas. You don't. There's very few combos for BM hunters and those aren't survival teams, they burst down people.
I see decent fire mages all the time.
Fact is, BM was only really viable in 2v2 (or a 3v3 cleave) and you were only useful if you had bestial wrath off cooldown.
Now hunter representation will be even lower.
And you don't even need a BM hunter.
Sancitified Retribution ftw. Way more stable than relying on a pet crit. Especially since pets struggle to survive.