Some Thoughts On The New Badge System
Amatera on Tuesday, October 13, 2009 - 27 Comments Tags: Frost, PvE, PvP, arena, badges, burning crusade, conquest, heroism, honor, icecrown citadel, justice There once was a time when earning a badge meant slogging through a 5-man dungeon over the span of a couple hours, or spending an entire night on downing two or three bosses in a raid. And it was a really long haul towards the next piece of gear. Not to mention that there was only one type of badge, so you knew exactly where to spend it and how many you would need when you got there. In an effort to equalize the playerbase, Blizzard has expanded on this idea several times in Wrath of the Lich King, first introducing a new set of badges for each tier of content, and then, in 3.2, making their acquisition even easier by handing them for just about anything remotely dungeon-related.
BlizzCon Entry Pass: the hardest badge to earn of all!
What once took weeks could take a matter of days, especially if you've got a group of people capable of running Trial of the Crusader in all its forms. Some in the community have cried foul, myself included, but even I can admit that its only because I've been around the block a few times. I've seen the gear grind at its worst, and it's all too tempting to look down my nose at the people who've only picked up the game more recently, and yell at them in my shrill old man voice, "Why, back in my day...!"
And also like a confused geriatric, keeping all the different badges (and how you can get them) straight sometimes makes my head spin. It's bad enough that (excluding Badges of Justice from Burning Crusade) we have four different kinds, but to obtain Tier 9.5 equipment, you need to pair them up with trophies you can only get from 25-man ToC.
As much as I'd like to see some sort of consolidated system implemented going forward, I'm starting to see what Blizzard is getting at here. Currently, Badges of Conquest drop from Heroic 5-man dungeons and all raids but ToC. With the introduction of Icecrown Citadel, we'll start to collect Badges of Frost, and all of those places that used to give Conquest will be bumped up to Triumph. Does anyone else see the pattern starting to form here?
I came to this revelation not too long ago, myself, so I'll give you a hint: Player versus Player. This style of progression isn't quite as new or damning as it might at first seem. Every time a new Arena season starts, they've been giving access to previous season sets at reduced rates. The reason for this, of course, is that it increases competition. If players new to Arena (or those that simply had trouble increasing their ratings in the past) weren't able to easily purchase said gear, then there might not ever be new blood pumped into the system. You'd have the same exact people at the top of the rankings time after time after time.
The rub is that Arena play fosters direct competition, so it's arguable that this method of gearing people up has more benefits in PvP than it does in PvE, right? Well, let's explore it a bit further. Raid progression isn't ranked in-game, and there are no rewards for doing something faster or better than another guild aside from prestige. For some, that's more than enough motivation. There's plenty of genital-waving going on in the WoW community, and a lot of it is associated with people achieving world firsts or beating others to the punch. While Blizzard may not do much to track it, there are websites out there that catalog progression and tell you which guilds are the "best."
But since this is an indirect form of competition, there is no particular need to funnel new players into the system in the same way there is for Arena. Barriers to raid progression are much more focused on learning than adapting, and since everybody has the same amount of access to all of the information out there on the internet, the playing field is, theoretically, already even. While gear is, and always be, a factor, the drive to push forward is much more important.
So, while there is a sort of meta-contest going on in the raiding community, I'm not sure that alone is enough to give the new badge system a thumbs up. After all, if you're already a good player in a top-tier guild, you don't really need the assistance.
Ask Blizzard, and they'll probably tell you that it's to keep the entirety of the playerbase current, so that everyone can see and play through the newest raid. But in reality, it's a little bit more than that. It's a psychological hook to keep middle-tier players in the game by allowing them an easy way to gear up to a level just below that of the latest content. And a lot of people bite, because looking cool and "being geared" make them feel better.
While it may have stabilized the population for now (after rumors of subscriptions starting to flag), I'm still not sure what this means for the game in the long term. The "realm" of hardcore players has been drastically marginalized. Don't get me wrong, there's still somewhere for them to hang with the Hard Modes, Achievements, and World Firsts, but if Blizzard allows the remainder of the playerbase to penetrate that sanctum, then what else is there to look forward to? For the good players or the merely okay ones?
As I've already said, I understand what Blizzard is trying to do, but I hope that they take Cataclysm as an opportunity to tone down the badge system. I think all it really needs are a few tweaks. Maybe a return to longer, harder 5-man dungeons? Or a single badge with rewards requiring an exponentially increasing number of them? But even those ideas have their flaws. The magic solution has to account for the average person's playtime, as well as their skill. It may call for more punctuated difficulty, such as relatively short instances featuring a handful of insanely challenging boss encounters. But then you're going to invite complaints of bad balance and unfair fights.
This is the kind of complicated matter that requires a little bit of group-think, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to rebuild the badge system. Tweak it as it is or start from the ground-up? Are you in favor of simply making encounters harder again or should they be more rare (perhaps not a guaranteed drop)?
Reader Comments (27)
the 10 + 25 content is sad
bring back the 10 man only and 25 man only raids!!!
I like the emblem system. I consider myself a good player. I know all the fights, I don't stand in the green, red, or black. I go by the latest raid info I can get my hands on to keep my spec and rotation current. The problem of course, is gear. My guild is small and casual. For some reason, I have the WORST luck with PuG raiding. My whole server is fairly casual. (There is only one guild ranked in the top 50 on my server) Finding a group for 5 mans can be like pulling teeth. I work, and I have children. All this works against me progressing in raid content.
But I pay for this game. I pay for the internet to play this game. But I cannot be the hardcore raider I wish i could be. Why should I be excluded from current gear and end game raid content because my real life schedule is hectic? Or that my dear friends I wouldn't abandon would rather pick flowers than smash Mimiron? I applaud Blizz's initiative to help us in the "middle of the pack" at least stay somewhat current. There are 12 million WoW players. They know that number will drop dramatically if only the top 10% of each server has anything to show for their 15 dollars a month. Logging in to do dailies and farm herbs and mining nodes gets old VERY QUICKLY. OF COURSE we "feel better" when we cash in our Emblems to get our new pieces of armor. It gives us SOMETHING to show for our time and money invested. All the old schoolers need to stop QQing about how hard WoW USED to be, and be glad that something is being done to keep people excited and interested in the game. The end game raid world firsters are in no danger of a well geared group of n00bs taking them off the leader board any time soon.
@Conchuir
yes yes YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES!
You hit the nail right on the head and I thank you for it.
whats wrong with out current badge system? boohoo the newbies have it easy now cry me a river ever since blizzard has made emblem of conguast the common badge drop my i was able to gear my mage in gear from all 4 emblems and trial of the champion gear without spending the whole day in the raid this gave the opportuanity to exlore other parts of teh game literly i got my exlporers title i got my crusader title i ahve 11 exalted rep i am abotu a day away from being exalted with the frenzy heart in the 3 years i been playing non of my character had a profession but this time around i was able to level my professions to i had time to knock of some of those easy or once i was very close to getting pvp acheivements i had badges left over to get some pvp gear as well had time to work on my wapons skill adn my unarmed skill i got geared and knocked of howling fjord, IC, and stormpeaks for my loremaster of northrend achievement all i need now is grizzly hills i had time to get 50 mount achievement and i am closing in "shop smart shop met smart " achievement i got some good ones to i havent decided if i want t he argent champion title but i have the time for it i am sitting at 3.53k acheivement points while still keeping up with the game and here is the kicker i no longer spend all me free time on this game with nothign to show for it. i would estimate that i missed about half the game and some parts i really dont care about those parts include every isntance up to ulduar i really wish that i could fidn a pug taht is capable getting past the furnace master guy and TOC sounds preaty epic the one nagative effect was that with me being able to gear up without even stepign into a serious raid was that i missed all the content sure juggy does some of those new raids once in a while and so did PL for a while but its one thing to see and a whole other to experince it what little i seen of TOC tells me taht you defently dont wanto miss it and tahts exactly whats going to happen if blizz goes though with this if this does happen than players will shoot strait past ulduar (anotehr experince you dont wanto to miss) get some onyxia gear and as soon as they are in the yellow (notice not green yellow) pressuming you beat the new instance all those noobs will shoot for ICC why doesnt blizz jsut make the badges drop from regs then you wont have to work hard for anything in this game anymore. but if blizz does go though with this i hope they atleast extend the sellection of gear finish the job they started
Actually Conchuir I would say they might be, I happened into a newly forming guild wanting to get into ulduar content our first run in all the way past kologarn in a few hours of raiding. Our first time raiding together as a group. We caught up to the progression of other top guilds on our server in 2 weeks, the following week we had someone get sick and not show up for raid canceling raid. Then we suffered form some guild drama some attrition and eventual collapse. I'm confident though had we been able to keep it together we could have had a server first, very few of these people had ever raided together before and we blew the content up hitting yogg before all but three people in the guild left, 2 weeks after the top guild on the server did. I don't think we were special in this we just happened to be a group of 25 who gave it a go and were able to put personal differences aside for a few weeks.
/cheer @Conchuir, well said. I'm not a "hardcore" player, just play a lot :D but a good example of how things used to be would be the mounts. I remember wasting hours running from point A to get xyz at point B only to return to point A...rinse and repeat until lv 40. Then the level req dropped to 30 and then 20. I wasn't too happy at first, but lets face it... we all know the 1-60 grind inside and out, so what's wrong with facilitating/speeding leveling for EVERYBODY, new and seasoned players alike. Bottom line... Blizz wants us to spend time playing, if this game turns into a job/chore RL has plenty of these already :) Just be glad Blizz keeps ADAPTING this game, if you dont like it just go play some Doom or Wolfenstein... You'll be back.... But for now, quit the QQ and get back to PEWPEW.
/end rant :D
@Conchuir
Gevlon, the Greedy Goblin, takes a real hard-line approach, but I'd recommend reading this blog entry:
http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2009/10/can-there-be-casual-raiding.html
I sincerely agree with him that people without a whole lot of time to play do have the ability to progress in raiding. My "middle-tier" comments were mostly aimed at the group he calls "socials."
A badge system that rewards skill would be beneficial to both casual gamers (like yourself) and hardcore players alike.
And I also think that there are more things you can "show for yourself" than raiding to justify that $15 a month. There are a lot of people out there that complain about not being able to raid properly and then go off and herald other parts of the game as evidence of Warcraft being fun. If that's the case, then why is raiding the only way to measure yourself?
I mean, it is for me, but that's because I play this game primarily for that reason. I'm not the kind of player that spends a lot of time farming or raising reputation, but that doesn't mean people who enjoy doing those things should find the game any less rewarding.
I agree with Conchuir, but my whole complaint about this, is that we have new badges. I just want things simpler. Maybe with the new gear, make it more badges? or Reduce the previous as said with Arena gear.
I've always been one for making WoW easier, but I'm not really seeing it right now. If people come in and learn all this crap, it's going to be harder to adjust to when Cataclysm comes out.
Just my two cents.
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Laeltis - 80 Orc Hunter
Mordil - 80 Orc Warrior
Shattered Halls
Of course everyone who is not a high end raider will agree with the game getting easier. Why not? They get rewards they dont deserve for little effort. This is a game of progression. Progression of level, skills, professions, etc. If you dont have the time to raid/ level/ skill up then thats tough. In single player games if you dont have the time to collect everything, and beat every little part of the game, do you go whining they should make it easier? The whole point of making challenges and rewards is that it takes perseverance to obtain them. You spend the countless hours raiding or grinding those few extra mobs or nodes to get that extra boost. And as a reward for your time and effort you get better gear/skills etc. If you dont earn it, why do you expect to have it handed to you?
well i think blizzard should be a little more sencetive to our needs and the "we dont give rats ass" attitude wont get am anywhear i hear healph care is going to be 15$ a month and if blizzard continues on this trail or goes back to the "good all days" when it comes down to it what do you think they are going chose healph or headaches?
I reread that 3 times and it still makes no sense.
Anyway, @conchuir, I think you're looking for a Raid Community. Our raid community comprises one big guild, and a handful of people from other guilds, including a whole 10man team from another guild that comprises give or take half the raid on 25man runs.
There is no requirement to leave your current guild, you just need to be at our level of gear, sign up on the website so you can earn dkp, and join our chat channel. We don't have a minimum-sign-ups-per-week rule (though discussion around one comes up quite frequently) which makes it social.
Try looking for something similar on your server, and when you run Heroics with guildies with your new shinies on, maybe they'll catch the raiding bug too.
I don't like it. It's just too fussy for me. Less types of emblems, harder encounters, something, anything would be better.
It IS nice. You can gear up alts super fast, you can skill all the content you've already done, whatever.
But at the same time, everytime they bump up which emblems you use, all previous content becomes completely obsolete.
@Zreena
Explain to me how all the previous content goes obsolete. Yes, some things such as tier pieces and off-set pieces become unwanted, but remember that badge items don't include everything there is to use. Good trinkets, and to a lesser extent rings and other miscellaneous depending on what you are, are not generally obtainable with badges. Yes, there are a few items they add here and there, but often they are inferior to an already existing item. Take Grim Toll as an example, people will still run Naxx to obtain it for the massive ArP proc. Are there other trinkets you can use? Sure, but it is still a relevant and useful piece of equipment.
I found it to be so dissapointing that after all our hard work getting through Mimiron our reward of tier gear was laughed at and then de'd. I am fine with having gear be accesible through emblems but that was ridiculous. You should never be able to get the top gear at the time through mindless running of heroics. If you are not raiding, why do you even care that you can't get the top gear? You aren't playing a part of the game that requires it. Also why does Blizzard force our hand into running these heroics over and over again? At least tune them up or something. Running the daily for 2 emblems of triumph has become an annoying chore of blowing through bosses in under 30 seconds. How is that fun?
matt@ first of all you were never able to get the top gear with out actaully raiding when emblem triumph was released all other instances and raids droped conguest emlblems and we were able to get ulduar 25 gear but the best gear in teh game was TOC and TOGC speaking of which i persinaly dont want top gear just respectible gear without spending endless ours behiind the comp raiding
Aaagg...Cocopuff's comments make my eyes and head hurt.
The thing is that nube players that just hit 80 and are getting gear that used to take forever to get isnt to fair and it makes picking people for raids harder because you have no clue if they are any good at all. In cataclysm they need to either fix badge system or take it out because right now it fails and the raids need to be alot harder my guild went into Toc 10 man and did it in two hours with one wipe it was kind of sad...
I work nights so my schedule conflicts with everyone at times it seems...so i like the way its. I can get gear to at least run stuff this way
After writing 3 or 4 different comments and then erasing them to say something else, ill make it simple:
This new look blizzard has on helping noobs is going to ruin the game for the dedicated players, and make them move to other games where theier hard work and determination can be shown.
Who wants to play a game where you can put time and effort into getting yourself something, only to have it much much much easier for everyone else to get in a few months. Everyone having the chance to get some half alright gear is just fine and i have no issues with that, but blizz needs to draw the line somewhere, let the casual players have gear that lets them have some fun in naxx, even start 10 man ulduar, but everyone should have to do the same work to get gear after that.
And for anyone whos about to post a "stop the QQ" comment, bite me. anyone whos saying dont QQ are the people who would be complaining if the game was to hard.
@priestee
That's about where I'm at (if it wasn't evident from the initial post). I don't mind people being able to get some decent gear, but I think the "line" needs to be pushed back a little bit, because it's in real danger of moving too far forward.
I agree with Priestee.
While I agree that Blizzard needs to trim the "emblem tree", I actually support what they are doing in giving a hand-up (not hand-out) to players that are experiencing difficulty in getting their gear up to an acceptable level. Are newcomers going to obtain latest and greatest gear? Not in my opinion since you'll still have to do ToC 25 runs and compete against 24 others for one of the trophies; that's a crimp right there.
I know from personal experience back in TBC what it's like to be shut out despite putting forth reasonable effort. I don't want other people to have to go through that. (Remember: hand-up versus hand-out.)
Lastly, since I play a hybrid class I look forward to gearing up my dual-spec. :)
@Conchuir
Amen brother preach on!
@Conchuir
A-freaking-men!!! As a fellow parent/full time employee I know of what you speak as far as limited play time goes.
I think another consideration that may have gone into this is the Gearcheck whores LFM in trade. In-game GMs would have to be blind to miss these guys. You know who they are "LFM for 25 Naxx...pst with Gear score or come to Dal Fountain for inspection." Hell, I've seen people posting in trade that they require 4K gearscore for the FREAKING DAILY!!!! I HATE gear snobs.
F the Gearscore!
F the people who use it for heroics and old raids!
Don't get me wrong, I understand wanting a certain gearscore for raids or even Hard Modes...bur for a regular heroic?!?!?! Get outta here! And with Blizzard continually adding bosses to VOA, Ive given up trying to get in a group for that. Its just not worth the trouble and that's too bad because what I liked about VOA was it was quick, you could get decent gear upgrades and you fought GIANTS! Who doensn't like fighting giants anyway?
@all cry badies whining about the game getting to easy
i am not going to restate what so many people have allready said iinfect you know say that the "dedicated" players will leave teh game if it doesnt get harder i say dont let the door nob hit you on the way because you know what? 20-30% of the players of this game are "dedicated" by your definition if everyone of you leave blizzard will stil have 9-10 million players allthough i agree you have to draw a line at some point and it looks like blizz is passing that line next patch