Project Lore

I'm not sure I like this :(. While I should be happy that now a PuG should be able to clear the first few bosses with ease, I've enjoyed the difficulty of what I've experienced of Ulduar so far (Ignis, XT and Iron Council none downed though :'(). I knew a great big nerf bat would be applied to the instance at some point, but not less than a month after it's release. Sigh. One of these days I'm gonna have to quit my friend/family/boyfriend run guild and get some more serious raiding done.

Sorry for the double post, missed this earlier and saw no way to edit my comment:

Frostitute Said:
"Fact is, wow is supposed to offer progression, take comparion so pre-wotlk.

Naxx = kara
Uldar = ZA

Currently the scale of progression is too steep, its more like SWP raid difficulty."

I think your underestimating how hard SWP was, the hard modes in ulduar might come close, but several of my guild members agree with me that the bosses are reminiscent of the harder end BT (in the appropriate gear) - from Blood Boil onwards. SWP was easily a whole other level from that by a long long shot.

I am currently starting the gear runs of naxx at the mo.. got a few bits from a couple of runs and I am looking forward to getting in to 25 man runs to get the higher pieces.. Now I think naxx is to easy at the mo even for someone that has just started in it... Now I have alot of raid xp from old wow and think that the raids now are 2 eaasy.. My guild went in to ulduar just to give it a go and see what we are up against.. We did furnace master in no time at all so I wasn't sure what everyone was moaning about... Then came XT-002 fight... Yeah now i know why people say its hard lol... But isn't that what it is meant to be like? We are all aiming for the new endgame gear and achievments.. Shouldn't they be hard to achieve? I think so and a nerf is a bad plan. I mean if the best guilds can do it so can everyone with enough practice... and so what if you wipe 10 times on one boss... it makes you learn and makes you a better a player in the end... SO PLEASE LEAVE IT BE

I neven been to Azeroth pre-tbc. Thanks to the achievements I started doing the old raids/instances. I can only imagine how hard it was back in the day when 40players started to attack a boss.

Then there is Naxx... and there was Naxx. Even I, an unexperienced raider, went through Naxx without any problems (except Patch, I hate that guy).

Then there came Ulduar and I have to say OMFG, before we reached the Flame Leviatan, we almost whiped.
The vehicle face is much fun depending on the machine you choose. On the boss we whiped once, then the big child robot. I think we whiped the first time because of it's voice. It took me a minute to come to my sences and realise he was a threat.

Since then I've never been to Ulduar again. I like the difficulty, the satisfaction I got from downing a boss after a few close whipes.

As somebody that joined during TBC and never did a raid there, I can understand why they want to nerf the raids but if players realy want to do raiding they need to work for it.
First clear Naxx then try Ulduar, that is what I say!

Nerf is needed for casual players. can you imagine 25 casual guys wiping at the same boss and can you imagine the screams yells and other things on forums next day? Blizz made it well, if you're casual just run through normal, get your T8 and be happy, but if you;re hardcore gamer or just very skilled gamer run through hard-mode and don't mess with normals and get your cool T8,5. There should be difference between HARD and NORMAL. Normal should be like Ulduar for masses, but hard should be really HARD for skilled elite. IMHO.

To be honest, I don't think it should be nerfed.

Well, that's not completely true, I think it should be how Sunwell was, and nerfed towards the end of it's life span.
Like when the next raid content is due to come out, start nerfing it periodically to allow more people to experience it, finish it, and gear up for the next raid (be it, 3.2 or 3.3, though I think it'll be 3.3 then 3.4 with 3.2 having PvP stuff and a new 5man).

This keeps the challenge up yet still lets the more casual guilds experience it in due course.

I understand blizzards point to make content more accessible for every one, but there is all ready heroics (and they are far to easy, I think they should make them a tad harder), 3 raids, Wintergrasp, the Argent Tournament as well as thousands of quests. I don't think that blizzard is robbing people of there money if they have something that only the more skilled players can complete. Is there is no challenge the game isn't as fun. Just my thoughts.

The main problem is not that nerfs are coming but how soon they have come. Ulduar is supposed to be hard and thats what was fun about it. All though whenever I have been there we only down Flame Leviathan and struggled on everything else..it was fun because it was my first progression raid. I came into Naxx with my guild having most wings on farm and I was looking for a challenge in Ulduar.

With that being said we all knew nerfs were coming...but three weeks after its released come on. I mean 2 or 3 months after the release would have been fine to then nerf the raid. I am one that truely wants some nice T8, but with Ulduar I want to have that feeling of accomplishment of earning it, not that it is just handed to me now. Let the guilds that truely care about progression have there shot at this...dont make it another Naxx.

Well IMO leave it as it is, but add a harder mode to Naxx so those casual raiders have a further challenge in front of them before they attempt Ulduar. I mean come on guys if you expect to be handed everything on a gold platter why bother doing anything. It's all about Achievments and IMO haveing hard things to do makes actually earning those achievments all the better because of the fact it was so hard. To nurf it is to take away from those that have done it already and make them feel why bother lets just quit playing the game till they nurf it and walk in and destroy it and get 10 runs in in a night instead of 1 or 2 in the same amount of time.

IMO there's alot worse problems in the game then "new" content. I mean dam fix the "old" stuff first. PvP has been busted for like forever and now that the level cap has been raised since WoLK's release the gear hasn't and the new gear isn't much better and in most cases worse then pre WoLK.

So in summation Fix the OLD and leave the new stuff alone till it becomes OLD.

@Alex, if you feel the gear was better pre Wrath then try using it in a raid or BG and see how that goes...

Once it has been completly cleared theoreticly everything becomes old. Nerf - make it harder w/e doesnt matter, blizzards goal is clear, and every new raid once it gets on the "farm-list" , makes morons whine "we wantz challenge no nerf pliz" , make up ur mind allready, if u cant dig it, do it like ensidia, raid it for 2-6 weeks, till everyone gets what they want then take a break till a new major raid apears and start all over again. And whoever said that blizzard doesnt robbes ppl of their money if they cant experience it, hell they do: i and everyone else pays the same amount of money for this service, its our right to see experience everything we pay for , if we cant , that meens its our failure cuz we cant get a raid 2gether or cant find a proper guild for raiding , but clearly thats the players problem. Bitch all u want, it gets nerfed dig it, or piss off =D bwhahaha.

As one who hasn't been into Ulduar yet, I can't completely say the nerfs are/will be a bad thing. It all depends on how/why the difficulty is being scaled. Blizz originally made the 10/25 man versions so guilds or groups who didn't have the hardcore group of people to do 25 mans could do the 10 man version. They were supposed to be able to progress through 10 mans without necessarily needing gear from 25. So by that logic a guild should be able to do only 10 mans and eventually beat the lich king (when that raid comes out) as long as they've been clearing and gearing up from 10 man raids.

Now if guilds in 25 man gear were having fairly big problems on 10 man Ulduar, then maybe yes the difficulty should be brought back a tiny bit. But if people in 10 man gear are having problems but still able to slowly progress (and same for 25 mans) then I think the nerfs are too much.

Good. Finally Ulduar gets hit by the nerfstick.

It seems like the majority of people dont want Ulduar nerfed but you have to realize that this is the internet and on various sites devoted to WoW. There are more people who play the game for fun who don't go to these sites which makes it seem like the majorities opinion is to keep Ulduar at its current difficulty level. So Blizz is doing the smart thing by catering to the real majority which are the people who are having trouble within Ulduar.

I understand that Blizz has to think about the ones who do not know how to play their classes and lack the abilities to think logically (as in "oh look! fire! i bet it does me good!!), thats why they are nerfing everything, but it saddens me that now the ones who actually do understand the game and know their classes will just run through every instance in the game with ease and there are no challenges left in the game for them...-sigh- well, have fun leveling to 80 in 5 days then doing the T7 in another 2 - grats, it took you a week to complete the game.

@Snaggly comprehend what someone says before you make yourself look like an idiot... What Alex meant was : The current regular BG is no where near as vauable as it was PRE WOTLK HELLZ Pre TBC Pvp gear was the shitz for raiders especially Warriors.

they should only nerf the 10 man version. if you're guild can't clear past the early bosses pre-nerf, they shouldn't be trying 25 man anyways. also, this way 25 man could actually be "heroic mode" instead of just more people

The fun of BC raiding was the challenge

I totally agree with Sathas. In fact, if I tried to say it myself, I couldn't have done a better job.

But also, Ahn'Qiraj, back before any of the expansions, was precedent for great raids. It had a story going on during the game (gathering supplies), it took a HUGE quest chain to get it open, and to top it all off it was ENORMOUS. But even then, withing a few hours of Blizz doing a hotfix to actually make it possible to kill C'Thun, he went down. Within a week, the majority of true raiding guilds were getting there. That was the second hardest raid in all of the original WoW (or the hardest in some people's opinions).

Ulduar is the first added raid, and already Blizz is overestimating players. If they keep making each raid so much harder than the last, by patch 3.3 the endgame will have grinded to a halt. You'd have to devote your entire life to WoW just to get through another dragon sanctum, let alone Icecrown... While I think the 25 man should stay the same, especially when guilds get more and more geared from 10 mans and hard modes, the "normal" version of the raid should definitely be made easier. To those who say people who can't do Ulduar can't play, remember that people are wiping here who have already cleared all other raids, or at least most of them. Even Juggynaut: one of the top achievement people on the realm, undying, loremaster, level 80 in a couple days after wrath, hasn't beaten Yogg'Saron. Wake up and smell the blood, it's time for a reality check

I'm the first to admit a boss is hard...But I like a challenge...I am perfectly willing to attempt a boss many many times to down it...It feels that much better in the end...

all you whiners about challegeing raid, go play a diffrent game and quit bitching like 5 year olds. ffs, if you dont like it go play EQ and try putting togeather a raid on there dieing servers; we dont need or want you playing wow if all your going to do is cry.

a raid is supposed to be HARD not a damn walk in the park... otherwise there is no "reward" from it. imo

dont get me wrong i like a chalange... but i think ulduar will still alst the majority of guilds till Ice Crown

For all you people complaining out there that its too easy, please can we see your hard mode kill achivements,

Oh wait you don't have them because over 2 weeks after release, YS and Algon have yet to be killed, the latter only 1 guild have even got to (25 man).

If the current furthest progressed guild in the game is putting out press releases that say that the hard modes are well tuned and a decent challenge, and have taken them more than one reset to clear i think its fair to say it's probably not undertuned. linky:

http://www.ensidia.com/home/news/mimiron-hardmode.html

So to those people complaining about the nerfs, step up and do the hard modes, then come back and complain!

Ok. It is my opinion that even the casual WoW players should be able to see the end game content. I do agree that they should have to progress through the raids. As in, they have to be fully heroic geared to run Naxx 10 man. Then turn around and be fully 10 man Naxx geared to run 25 man Naxx. Then be fully 25 man Naxx geared to run the 10 man Ulduar so on and so forth. There should be a challenge for the casual gamers. If the hardcore gamers want more of a challenge, run 25 man Naxx as a 5 man group. If you're so hardcore that the game isn't enough of a challenge, make it a challenge. Don't wait for Blizzard to challenge you. Challenge yourself and quit whining that things are too easy.