Adventures on the Isle of Conquest
Posted by 
Amatera on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 21 Comments Tags: AV, Airship Hangar, Alterac Valley, Cobalt Mine, Docks, IoC, Keep, Oil Derrick, PvP, Siege Workshop, arathi basin, battlegrounds, isle of conquest, patch 3.2, player versus player, ptr, test
Amatera on Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 21 Comments Tags: AV, Airship Hangar, Alterac Valley, Cobalt Mine, Docks, IoC, Keep, Oil Derrick, PvP, Siege Workshop, arathi basin, battlegrounds, isle of conquest, patch 3.2, player versus player, ptr, test
A dark, stormy night. The thunder of cannon fire ricocheting off the rocky cliffs. A lurching behemoth moves across the sky, ready to rain destruction upon the ground below. Fireballs burst forth from the vents of a nearby manufacturing plant. If nothing more, you could say that the Isle of Conquest is appropriately moody. Atmospheric, even. In my opinion, probably one of the finest works of visual design in the game. Which is why it's such a shame that, for all its bravado and promises, it doesn't really seem to move the concept of the Battleground forward.
I regaled you in a previous post with the things I desired to see in the future of PvP combat, and the initial previews for the Isle of Conquest suggested that it might just be headed in that direction. A brief reminder: resource collection, enforceable objectives, hard modes, and an epic scale. Of all those, the end result seems only to incorporate the last.
Standing in front of the imposing Horde Keep.
Now, I shouldn't say "end result." After all, IoC has only seen a day of public testing, and there's plenty of time to tweak and change it before Patch 3.2 gets tossed out on live servers, but that may not be enough if the fundamental mechanics are potentially broken. With a couple dozen matches under my belt, I've noticed that zerging still hasn't gone out of style. Just like Arathi Basin, people burst forth from their starting gates and scramble to capture several objectives strewn about in the middle of the map (even the icons are the same!).
Controlling the Docks will give you access to the new Glaive Thrower vehicle (which, I have to admit, is pretty bad ass; it's physically weak, but has a lot of range and reminds me of those cool little foam disc shooters I had as a kid). The Siege Workship, which sits square in the center, allows you to ride the now-familiar Demolishers and Siege Engines (the latter of which will activate after you've maintained control for awhile). And then there's the Airship Hangar, which is the objective du jour. Hold onto this building and your faction's got an automated battleship ready to unleash chaos on your enemies. Taking a portal at the Hangar transports you on top, allowing you to either man the powerful on-board cannons or take a flying leap into the opposing Keep (don't worry, a parachute will guide you down safely).
As absolutely cool as this mechanic is (and it may account for some of its current popularity), it's also evidence that zerging has certainly not gone out of style. Currently, Isle of Conquest seems to consist of two things: rush the Hangar, assault the Keep. Capping doesn't take very long, and there are no other towers to take down to delay the process. The only other pre-condition is that you blow up the front gate (which can be done from inside after your paratroopers land) in order to make the enemy commander appear.
Wide shot of the two airships hovering just above the Hangar, one of the Isle of Conquest's capture points.
The Oil Derrick and Cobalt Mine (which sit on opposite diagonals of the map), thus far, seem to attract far less attention, and I can see them becoming just like the mines in Alterac Valley (i.e. a random, lonely player looking to stay away from the main action will likely cap them in order to make themselves feel like they're actually helping). With all the zerging going on, who needs reinforcements?
Essentially, there's nothing offered in IoC that pushes people to create new strategies or think about Battlegrounds in any way different from before. The matches I played last an average of 8-15 minutes, which is criminally short for something that's supposed to be this epic. Where are the stop-gaps? The objectives on the Isle are more like various options to complete the same objective, whereas they should be working in tandem to open up or shut down the enemy's Keep. The Workshop, for instance, could control a forcefield that either keeps people from parachuting into a base or greatly reduces the amount of damage that can be done to its walls. They'd have to hold it in order to make the Airship Hangar a worthwhile choice.
Or how about the Derrick and Mine? Make them spawn resources (not mere reinforcements) that, when accumulated over time, allows your faction to purchase the vehicles (instead of having them simply sitting there once the objective is taken)?
Looking clear across the battlefield, you can see the enemy Keep.
Mechanics like this would force players into a multi-step procedure for winning the fight. You must complete Phase 1, to even access Phase 2, and Phase 2 must be completed before you can finally assault the opposition.
But the more I think about it, the more I consider that there's an alternate motive for the speed at which IoC moves along, and that is, quite simply, its sister Battlegrounds. In order to keep it fresh, current, and well-played, instead of quickly forgotten, it must offer something to appease the mass of players that cares more for accumulating Honor than a fun, well-fought battle. Alterac Valley, in zerg mode, is the fastest way to earn the (not-so-)precious commodity. For the Isle of Conquest to take over as the premiere venue for PvPers, it must be even faster.
Beyond that, it's just catering to those with short attention spans and the desire for instant rewards. And this seems like a bit of a defeatist attitude for the Battleground designers to have. Their aspirations seem like mere window dressing, a thin coat of "cool" to hide the dirty truth about what players really want, and reluctantly or not, they're letting them have their way. But hey, that's business, and as much as I'd love it, they can't simply kowtow to people like
The rising smokestacks of the Oil Derrick/Docks area.
me, who are far more involved in the raiding and questing aspects of the game anyway.
I'll say it again, it's a beautiful setup, and the vehicles add a much needed layer of scope to the proceedings. There are a lot of things I like about the Isle of Conquest so far, but that makes the underlying issues even more glaring. I was hoping that this would be the one to sell me on the concept of Player versus Player again, but unless sweeping changes are made to the basic mechanics of the Battlegrounds or the philosophy upon which they are conducted, I think I may have to pass.
Nonetheless, we have a whole test period ahead of us to see what changes. Perhaps some of the problems can be corrected through tweaks, while others can be rectified by players simply getting used to the Battleground and molding it into something different than what I've seen thus far. Then again, learning to zerg is something that comes later on in the cycle, and if its already appearing, people have either already exploited some glaring holes, it is designed as I've speculated in this article.
Speak out, readers, and let me know how you feel about the Isle of Conquest, especially if you've put some actual time into on the PTR. Are you a lapsed PvPer looking to get back into the game? Does the new Battleground look like it could whet your appetite, or is it more of the same? Or are you dedicated to the fine art of ganking? If so, are you happy about these developments and the ease of farming Honor? You can also tell me to sod off with my sour grapes, and go raid something if I don't like having my butt whooped in PvP!
I regaled you in a previous post with the things I desired to see in the future of PvP combat, and the initial previews for the Isle of Conquest suggested that it might just be headed in that direction. A brief reminder: resource collection, enforceable objectives, hard modes, and an epic scale. Of all those, the end result seems only to incorporate the last.
Standing in front of the imposing Horde Keep.Now, I shouldn't say "end result." After all, IoC has only seen a day of public testing, and there's plenty of time to tweak and change it before Patch 3.2 gets tossed out on live servers, but that may not be enough if the fundamental mechanics are potentially broken. With a couple dozen matches under my belt, I've noticed that zerging still hasn't gone out of style. Just like Arathi Basin, people burst forth from their starting gates and scramble to capture several objectives strewn about in the middle of the map (even the icons are the same!).
Controlling the Docks will give you access to the new Glaive Thrower vehicle (which, I have to admit, is pretty bad ass; it's physically weak, but has a lot of range and reminds me of those cool little foam disc shooters I had as a kid). The Siege Workship, which sits square in the center, allows you to ride the now-familiar Demolishers and Siege Engines (the latter of which will activate after you've maintained control for awhile). And then there's the Airship Hangar, which is the objective du jour. Hold onto this building and your faction's got an automated battleship ready to unleash chaos on your enemies. Taking a portal at the Hangar transports you on top, allowing you to either man the powerful on-board cannons or take a flying leap into the opposing Keep (don't worry, a parachute will guide you down safely).
As absolutely cool as this mechanic is (and it may account for some of its current popularity), it's also evidence that zerging has certainly not gone out of style. Currently, Isle of Conquest seems to consist of two things: rush the Hangar, assault the Keep. Capping doesn't take very long, and there are no other towers to take down to delay the process. The only other pre-condition is that you blow up the front gate (which can be done from inside after your paratroopers land) in order to make the enemy commander appear.
Wide shot of the two airships hovering just above the Hangar, one of the Isle of Conquest's capture points.The Oil Derrick and Cobalt Mine (which sit on opposite diagonals of the map), thus far, seem to attract far less attention, and I can see them becoming just like the mines in Alterac Valley (i.e. a random, lonely player looking to stay away from the main action will likely cap them in order to make themselves feel like they're actually helping). With all the zerging going on, who needs reinforcements?
Essentially, there's nothing offered in IoC that pushes people to create new strategies or think about Battlegrounds in any way different from before. The matches I played last an average of 8-15 minutes, which is criminally short for something that's supposed to be this epic. Where are the stop-gaps? The objectives on the Isle are more like various options to complete the same objective, whereas they should be working in tandem to open up or shut down the enemy's Keep. The Workshop, for instance, could control a forcefield that either keeps people from parachuting into a base or greatly reduces the amount of damage that can be done to its walls. They'd have to hold it in order to make the Airship Hangar a worthwhile choice.
Or how about the Derrick and Mine? Make them spawn resources (not mere reinforcements) that, when accumulated over time, allows your faction to purchase the vehicles (instead of having them simply sitting there once the objective is taken)?
Looking clear across the battlefield, you can see the enemy Keep.Mechanics like this would force players into a multi-step procedure for winning the fight. You must complete Phase 1, to even access Phase 2, and Phase 2 must be completed before you can finally assault the opposition.
But the more I think about it, the more I consider that there's an alternate motive for the speed at which IoC moves along, and that is, quite simply, its sister Battlegrounds. In order to keep it fresh, current, and well-played, instead of quickly forgotten, it must offer something to appease the mass of players that cares more for accumulating Honor than a fun, well-fought battle. Alterac Valley, in zerg mode, is the fastest way to earn the (not-so-)precious commodity. For the Isle of Conquest to take over as the premiere venue for PvPers, it must be even faster.
Beyond that, it's just catering to those with short attention spans and the desire for instant rewards. And this seems like a bit of a defeatist attitude for the Battleground designers to have. Their aspirations seem like mere window dressing, a thin coat of "cool" to hide the dirty truth about what players really want, and reluctantly or not, they're letting them have their way. But hey, that's business, and as much as I'd love it, they can't simply kowtow to people like
The rising smokestacks of the Oil Derrick/Docks area.me, who are far more involved in the raiding and questing aspects of the game anyway.
I'll say it again, it's a beautiful setup, and the vehicles add a much needed layer of scope to the proceedings. There are a lot of things I like about the Isle of Conquest so far, but that makes the underlying issues even more glaring. I was hoping that this would be the one to sell me on the concept of Player versus Player again, but unless sweeping changes are made to the basic mechanics of the Battlegrounds or the philosophy upon which they are conducted, I think I may have to pass.
Nonetheless, we have a whole test period ahead of us to see what changes. Perhaps some of the problems can be corrected through tweaks, while others can be rectified by players simply getting used to the Battleground and molding it into something different than what I've seen thus far. Then again, learning to zerg is something that comes later on in the cycle, and if its already appearing, people have either already exploited some glaring holes, it is designed as I've speculated in this article.
Speak out, readers, and let me know how you feel about the Isle of Conquest, especially if you've put some actual time into on the PTR. Are you a lapsed PvPer looking to get back into the game? Does the new Battleground look like it could whet your appetite, or is it more of the same? Or are you dedicated to the fine art of ganking? If so, are you happy about these developments and the ease of farming Honor? You can also tell me to sod off with my sour grapes, and go raid something if I don't like having my butt whooped in PvP!
Reader Comments (21)
Looks epic. Can't wait.
Haha suck it all you firsters
second
sounds good but the problem with what you are saying is that blizzard likes to make things appealing to a broad audience...if battle lasted longer than 8-15 mins people would complain....thats the reason they changed AV in the first place.....back in vanilla WoW AV used to last for hours....i would LOVE to have the ideas you brought up put in in some shape of form but theres alot of people who want to go into a BG and not be there for half an hour to an hour
great post btw =)
I was hoping as well that bliz would make the IoC be more than a quick run through the battlefield, gathering specific points (like 1 or maybe 2) to win the battleground. I miss the days of the epic 8 hour Alterec Vally. Maybe they need to catter to all and have 2 seperate versions of the battlefield, one more quick, one more epic. Don't get me wrong, I like the new features, but things like comming into Alterec 1 minute late to miss the attacking force (and never be able to get to them, possibly before we win) really turn me off to PvP. These days, I find PvP as a time-waister.
i personally like how it is shorted because i couldn't stand those 2 hour long AV's but i like your ideas making it that the two points that are not sought after should be and make it that u need to get resources getting a hanger or something to begin making vehicles but 15 mins does sound a bit to short for something that seems so epic i think 25-30 would be a good time for a bg with as much honor as a wg.
Very nice article with good arguments for both sides of the fence. You make a good point about the quick BG's. For me though, this isn't as preferable. Unless there are instant BG queues, I'd rather stay in the BG longer then to have a quick fight and have to wait in queue again. The turtle matches in AV are by far the funnest.
Now that I've seen some HD video of it on YouTube, and considering your comments, I'm thinking that the Hangar and Workshop have a capture mechanic similar to the objectives in Wintergrasp... the more of one faction on location the faster it switches control to the one with more people. However, if both factions are equally matched, it could be a pretty long fight before one or the other gains control of either siege resource.
The resource nodes (Mines + Derrick) and dock can have the AB flag quick flip mechanic. Or something like that. Your idea of the Phase 1, Phase 2 mechanics would be nice to see too. Anything really that would make it run closer to 30 minutes so it doesn't feel like I'm constantly waiting to queue if I'm the faction that has to wait to queue (which always seems to be the case whatever faction I play.)
just when i was getting excited about this patch you show this zerging should not even be possible its the reason for such quick battles the picture got me thinking maybe i was wrong about this BG and it might turn out nice but it just goes to tell you dont judge a book by its cover this BG sounds completly redunded blizz needs to stop recycling old crap i was hoping for something new i know nlizz is probably gointo ignore it but here is some sugestioms
remove the mines or atlest make am usefull i hate those bastards in AV hanging out at the mine one shoting troggs cause they cant do anything ellse
like i said above removing any possiblity of zerging ki do not want another 10 minet battle if you dont like it dont queu
instead of the oil darrects capturing just for honnorr why make it as some what of a power up for siege engines and all the artillery
aside from the acasional post on PL about this place i really dont know enough about it to say anything ellse like how many mines, oild darracks, airship hangars,docks are thier
30 minets thats way to short for a BG dont we have enough short ass BGs WG is limited to 22minets SOTA is somewhear around their AV the general usualy goes down in teh first 10 minets i actaully like WSG my favorite BG but the one thing i hate is going back and forth back and forth back and forth ido hope that IoC isnt like that here is a sugestion for draging out a BG put out lots of objectives and award honnor to those who acomplish it leading to the finnal chalange the big bonus for the winner so even if you lose you didnt just waste all that time for no honnor thats the biggest problem with long BG battles the loser get allmost nothing the winner jsut get extra
i have watched the IoS video on you tube and it looks like the dugneon is gointo e a complete fail aside from a few factors like the glaive thrower totaly awsome and the torain isnt to bad either though the keeps look completly bogus but the gates have to much healph i am all for the battle lasting a along time but its not that fun to spend 5 minets busting down a gate and the cannons on the sky breaker have no kick in them the docks should spread out around the island instead of all in one place gives it a bit of a challange and drags out the BG battlemore air plane hangers allso spread out as for the design blizz needs get into the same mind set as that they were when they released WOTLK it wasnt jsut a new expenchion but a new game new enemys, vyrns, worms, giants, magmoths, thos frost dragons, nacromancers new allys alextranza, ebon blade, aregent crusade, new members of the alliance expedition like the frostborn. new designs , new everything its been 8 months and they have draged out the same game same design same same look same allys everything with some contents addins nothing never seen before its time for something new but blizz insists on holding on to the same old things this BG is not exception onething blizz has never done is water battle i think that would be a fresh prosspective to the game that could be another objective i menchioned above. this game lacks freshness they stick to same idea for literly years time to stop the cycle
I like having some short battlegrounds, but Blizzard really should've put more time for IoC because I think it'd be a nice change from the non-stop zerging in AV, AB, and EotS. WSG is the only bg where you've got a reasonable restriction on zerging since you can't cap a flag if the enemy has yours. IoC ought to have a zerg restriction as well.
fine ignore me
http://sandbox.projectlore.com/blog/adventures-on-the-isle-of-conquest/
damn it linked in the wrong post
Well BG's are being done in a changed way, it is made clear by the fact that in AB/EOTS the points needed to win has been reduced to 1600 from 2000 , that plus the 20 minute time limit on WSG. Blizzard want to make the games quicker, and not just in PVP either.
For instance
* The emblem changes. Allowing people to gear up quicker
* The in game quest helper like feature where icons will appear on your map showing you where you need to go to kill mobs, where you need to speak to npcs, gear wheels will show on map where you need to go and pick up items for your quest, and of course a yellow question mark will show on map where to hand in quest. ( it is that in game feature, that I dare say will put an end to thottbott and questhelper.
* Mount changes ( earlier levels can get them)
*Portals from Stormwind/Orgimmar to the outlands
* You will be able to buy t9.5 Helms/shoulders/neck/wrist armor for 25 coliseum badges ( As they are afterall called 25 coliseum badge (whichever class you are) helm. So 25 days of running normal 5 man in the new raid, will get you your first item in the T9 set.
Yep Blizzard want us all to rush through the game, but I have a strange feeling they may have a huge 40 person raid on the horizon for when we finally get to kill * well try to* kill Arthas, hence the fast progression system.
how does that relate to subject on
A Battleground should include a BATTLE not a "oh if we do this we save time". Personally I'd rather have an epic battle rewarding me along with my allies with an abundance of honor. I remember being able to get near 5k honor an AV in BC (during turtles) Yes i know they lasted longer... but you end up getting for honor for an hour long fight than you would in 5 more 30 min long fights.. I get close to 1k a win in AV maybe 500 a loss... same for most other BGs.. if you could get 3-5x that amount in 2x the time for ONE of the others wouldn't you take that option? you people look at the hour long battles thinking you gain the same/less amount of honor as u would in a shorter battle
I really dont like pvp to begin with, ill jump into av every once and a while for fun. adding exp gains to bgs is a huge change which i will def enjoy for all my alts. but im still waiting on a standard 40 v 40 deathmatch of types. First team to get to 250 kills wins....no objectives.....no vehicles......just straight up war in the center of a map with close graveyards..........ahhhh to dream.
no objectives no vehiclles just a race to the 250 kills i cant think of anything more dull
I love Radefa's idea. For me PVP is PVP (Player vs. Player) I don't go in there to "sleal a flag" or "capture a base". I go into a BG to see how well I do fighting another player, improve my PVP.
His idea would change things up a bit and stop all the QQ'ing about players not doing the objective and just battling for honor.
I like your idea about accumulating resources in order to build/use the vehicles. Time and again in AB I see everyone go to a site, take it, move to the next site, take it, move to the next...and so on while the other faction does the same on a different circuit. I admit it; I'm part of the problem, who wants to be the Lone Ranger against 7-15 opposition? I like HP but toonicide is not fun.
So, anyway, back to what I was saying tying things together, whether it is resource accumulation, or holding location A in order to affect location B, is a kewl idea that I hope someone takes a genuine look at. I would really like to see something that involves more tactics, and possibly even strategy, rather than the "bum rush approach".
As the worst pvp rogue on my server, I AM the lonely guy who caps the gy to feel useful, lol.