BigRedKitty: Ignorance and Stupidity
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BigRedKitty on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - 44 Comments Tags: PUG, heroic, ignorance, learning, pet, student, stupidity, tank, teacher, threat, violet hold
BigRedKitty on Wednesday, March 4, 2009 - 44 Comments Tags: PUG, heroic, ignorance, learning, pet, student, stupidity, tank, teacher, threat, violet hold 
One of the perils of doing anything publicly is the risk of being labeled "Stupid". Ignorance we can handle, stupidity not so much. Is there a difference? You bet.Ignorance is the absence of knowledge. How do rogues do an attack rotation? We have no idea; we're ignorant about rogue-mechanics.
Stupidity is acting in a manner inconsistent with known facts. We know not to pull aggro from our main tank. If we were to start firing before the main tank has established aggro, we'd be acting stupidly.
There is a fine line between ignorance and stupidity and that's "Unconventional". A hunter who melees because he knows no other way is Ignorant. A hunter who knows the proper method of playing a hunter who chooses to melee his way while leveling is Unconventional. So also would be a player who eschews killing mobs while leveling -- known as pacifist-leveling -- or someone who refuses to wear gear while leveling, just for the challenge of doing it.
Being unconventional is fine, as long as you don't affect other people without their knowledge and consent.
For example, it is known by most hunters that bringing a level seventy-five pet to a heroic instance will be gimping his own damage-output. It is also well known that the fastest way to level a hunter-pet from seventy-five to eighty is in heroic instances. A single heroic Violet Hold will usually give a pet almost an entire level.
Bringing a level seventy-five pet to a heroic with the goal of leveling it quickly, but seeking the permission of the rest of the raid before the raid starts, is Unconventional.
Bringing a level seventy-five pet to a heroic because you didn't know there are level seventy-nine pets available for immediate taming is Ignorant.
Bringing a level seventy-five pet to a heroic and without caring about the feelings of the rest of the raid is Stupid.
Personally, we are ignorant about just about everything there is to know about tanking and healing. When we bellow at our tank, "Make more threat!" we are very fortunate she doesn't yell back, "Why don't you, in your infinite wisdom, tell me just how you expect me to accomplish that!" Because if she did, we'd stammer and stutter and exclaim, "Just... you know, get it angry. Hit it, whatever, right? Threat! Do it!" And she'd reach through the Internet and squash us for our ignorance.
However we are not stupid, and we know that regardless of how the tank is generating threat, it is our responsibility to not pull aggro from the main tank. Our ignorance of tanking-mechanics can be compensated with our knowledge of hunter-mechanics.
How do we compensate for a tank not generating as much threat as we'd like?
* Cast Misdirection at every opportunity.
* Feign Death before we overtake the tank on the mob's threat list.
* Just chill out and decrease our DPS until the tank has a solid threat-lead.
If we were to refuse to Misdirect, Feign Death, and reduce our DPS when the tank is having difficulties maintaining aggro, we would not be "teaching the tank a lesson" by intentionally pulling aggro. No, we'd be Stupid.
Eliminating ignorance requires two people: an apt teacher and a willing student.
Eliminating stupidity is the job of just one person: the stupid one. You can encourage, enlighten, educate, and cajole a person towards not being stupid, but ultimately, it's his decision.
But what else can you do? You can learn to differentiate between ignorance and stupidity yourself and react accordingly.
Your PUG is having a hard time in Culling of Stratholme because the priest keeps running ahead of the party? Remind him that the paladin tank makes a wonderful Undead battering ram. Teach the priest that standing on top of, or slightly behind, the paladin tank will basically guarantee the priest's survival. If the priest adjusts his tactics appropriately, you'll have eliminated a little ignorance from the game and probably ensured the success of your run. But if the priest says nothing and keeps running amok, you'll know that you're dealing with Stupid and it's time to abandon-party.
Ignorance, stupidity, and unconventionality are big parts of Warcraft. Learning to modify your behavior when confronting these characteristics is key to your progression and fun in the game, (and in real life too).
Reader Comments (44)
I dont like it when people tell other people how to play their class, but im alwasy sure to ask for advice at the start of any instance. I find that pugs are getting to be much less relaxed these days, everyone seems to be the first to pounce on everyone else. It makes it really hard for people ( like a couple of my guildies) who are far from the best at what they do, but they are trying and are always open to advice, instead it ends up with some guy who doesnt play the class giving them "advice" ie, "wtf y cant u dps"" holy shit u suck" and so on and so forth. I think if people were jsut friendlier earlier on and gave advice when they knew what they were talking about the number of people who dont know what their doing endgame would greatly decrease.
Fantastic post, though i dont think you can expect someone to be able to follow your advice perfectly the first time. It takes practice.
Really great post and I really do agree with it.. considering I also have a hunter these are everyday problems we all confront some time in our WoW life:)
TY, BRK!
this needed to be said SOOOO badly! the number of alts out there vastly outweighs the number of new players.
nobody who has raided sicnce TBC is going to take "stupidity " accusations well. Simple fact is most alts are learning a whole new playstyle, constructive critisisum is in my opinion the best way to improve on a limited knolidge base.
Just insulting people who, do understand what it is they are trying to achive, they just dont know how.
reflects badly on only one person... YOU!
MD is an excellent tool of a Hunter's survival in any situation. Soloing? Cast it on pet. Grouped? Tank is a nice target. Same with raids.
In every raid I have ever been in I have made it a point to follow the tank up until he/she engages the target and then tag the tank with a quick MD before retreating to just in front of the healers. The same tactic works if I have to do a pull: MD the tank, pull, and retreat to the healers.
Why in front of the healers? Cloth versus mail. I have a chance at surviving longer than them since they are healing me when things start heading south. At the same time I can keep an eye on the healers to pull my pet out of the fight and onto whatever is heading for them.
This is a strategy learned from experience since, I admit, I was once an ignorant (bordering on stupid) player. Like BRK said, it's just a matter of being willing to learn a better strategy to make the wipes a thing of the past.
This was a very nice post. I wholeheartedly agree. With every word.
Imho, people confuse the 3 all the time, and those who just don't know get kicked, and that isn't fair.
I have to say i love you man (no im not uhh gay), but if i knew how to e-mail i would so i could talk to project lore and you more often.. unfortunatly i dont know how...
i realize im ignorent about e-mail not stupied, hehe very funny.
Ombrenoire thanks for the idea, i had actually never thought of that, normally i jist keep an eye out for anything to start goin for my clothies and jist drop volley on em to grab aggro with my Imp Volley. but standing in front of the healers/clothies is a much better idea, THANKS
When I first started running heroics, I always took my level 80 pet. I geared up in raids very quickly. I recently switched to SV, which meant lots of pet leveling for me. I did this all in pug heroics, but always with the stipulation that if I wasn't #1 in dps Id go get my lvl 80 pet. Always being at least 35%-40% of the groups dps makes people less likely to whine about your low leveled pet. So, if you're 10% above the next dps guy, whats the harm in leveling your pet in a heroic? I'd never try to level a pet as BM in a heroic though, THAT is stupid.
Good read. I'm pretty unconventional myself, although in my guild it's called being weird or eccentric ;)
Great post. As one that has done numerous ignorant things on many alt classes, I definitely appreciate the person that /w me about what to do differently. The stupid ones though - argh.
@Andra - that made me laugh out loud! GAWD!!!!
Wow Both of your posts on Project lore were great the only thing is when i bring a lvl 75 pet into a heroic (I only did once i hit 80) i asked the rest of the group if they minded and if they cared i just brought my gorrila if not my devilsaur was comming. ^^
But then i did lvl my cat by dailys when i went survival soon after i hit 80
Great post BRK!
As a hunter I would never think to melee during raids. That would be crazy. But when I am soloing, I tend to melee often during the second half of the fight. I don't mind paying a small repair cost for meleeing when the mobs drop dead at my feet. I see running to mob bodies as a waste of time. Probably unconventional. :P
@Sean: Ignorant-Stupid people are those who hear you say "there's a lvl 79 pet over there that you can befriend." but don't make the connection that they should!
I guess my friends and I are good about this. Everyone I know will say, "Hey, I have this going on." or, "Hey, I'm having troubles with this." It's just nice to know what's going on. I went to Culling of Stratholme not long ago and I asked the one person I knew in our group if he could get on vent with me just so I would know what was going on. It was my first time and I wanted to be well informed. Immediately the priest in the group said, "We don't need vent for this we'll be just fine." Yeah, wipe 5 times and see if you like it then. *glares at that priest.*
Ignorant people are sometimes quite nice, actually, when they accept your advice and thank you for it.
However, stupid people just keep popping out of nowhere, mostly at lvl 80's.
As my good-friend affliction warlock knows, people just keep staring at the dps meter. That is fine, really, when you want to know who in the group is slacking. But, however, as an affliction warlock, it is really hard to do decent dps on trash mobs without pulling aggro from the tank (as you would have to curse every mob). After a while, the group leader just decided to kick him, even though he did the top dps on boss.
This should fall in the category of sheer ignorance, but the sheer stupididy that a person can show is outstanding.... rogue healing with bandages?
What category does the people fall who knows that the current PUG is a fail one, but still refuses to leave as there is 0.0001% chance that they MIGHT succeed?
Lovely post BRK. There is a definable line between stupidity and ignorance. I experienced this recently too, in a PUG VOA 25 man. Now, sure, we had plenty of DPS. More than enough heals. But of course, when we scream at out tanks to keep out of Archavon's Gas, they don't. Sure, if it happened one time, I wouldn't care. I could get over that wipe, and go on with my life. But no. This went on for two wipes, until the RL said "screw it", and kicked the damn tanks.
Ignorance of how to play another character is ok, as long as its recognized by the person speaking! Someone crosses over to stupid when they choose to ignore their own ignorance... Many examples to be see out there... As a Hunter (not huntard!) i see it all the time. Tank screaming at hunters in a raid because they are claiming they are getting stunned from someones aspect of the pack, when there is no aspect up and the tank isnt even in a hunters group so even if it was it wouldn't affect them! Then noticing the same pally tank has crusader aura on for the whole fight! LOL. Then the next screaming fit when a rogue in stealth accidentally aggros a bunch of mobs and the same tank is screaming at hunters to keep their pets on passive! LOL. I cant tell you how many times I have died from pulling an add off a healer who pulled aggro from a tank only to get grief from others in the raid for dying! (Note: most of the times the healers recognize it and I will see some nice heals during the rest of the raid.)
And on a side note... I miss KARA, there was nothing like being a survival hunter, kiting/trapping adds for the whole fight on Moroes and still being one of the top in DPS on the boss... I miss my traps being useful... And back then it was great running with my old 10 man team which has since parted ways - back before every "stupid" player re-rolled a DK and became a professional in every class but their own...
Great post!
Ok, so (before my holy pally is 80) I ran 25OS on my recently 80 rogue. The whole experience is a blast, and my dps wasnt the worst.
Once we down Sarth and get rezzed, the ldr calls out the First item. Concealment Shoulderpads, (i quickly hit "c" and check my shoulders, seeing that they were a pair of crappy greens i quickly rolled, and damn, it was a 96. (I was pretty pleased) Until a rogue with full val steps in and says, i need those more than him. (I sit there like wtf) The raid leader gives it too him of course, trying to be courteous. Then i go /raid WTF? He has fu**ing full valorous, i have sh*tty greens and blues. tHen he goes, oops. While the rogue says "You were worst dps, you dont deserve sh*t" and leaves raid... Now where does Mother F*cking bastard come in to place?