Project Lore

People expect something for nothing

I spend thousands of gold buying JC recipes, and nobody wants to help me cover my costs with tips.. so I'm not sure on this issue. I've had enchanters come to me expecting free cuts, and free services, but expecting tips from me in return. I've had people sell me recipes for 800 g and turn around expecting free cuts afterwards. or AH recipes to the highest bidder instead of offering to inguild.

Ore and skins are generally only useful to the person obtaining the materials, though ore is more useful since they implemented JC, most people would gain no benefit from Most skins unless they were also a LW

I understand both sides of the issue and to be honest am fine with passing to my enchanter guildies usually, but I do think that just because an enchanter adds value doesnt necessarily mean they should have sole dominion over the drops.

I'd rather see gear used than sharded anyday, anyway.

Most Certainly Not willing to let enchanters keep mats in the case of a raid. Since thats something an entire raid earns, it should be held for the entire raidgroups use, not the sole enchanter.

I think the fairest way is to divvy up, and let the enchanter get Some compensation for their efforts while everyone else gets a shot at a share though.

I couldn't read all the comments but my idea is this: Enchanters get to DE items other people don't need, and everyone can roll on the mats... BUT you add 20 to whatever the enchanter rolls since they DEed it. Make a macro and tell your group befor entering an instance. If they don't agree, then reason with them. Maybe thats helpful? :)

If we have an Enchanter in the group when doing dungeons/raids, if a green (or better) loot drops of mobs - all roll greed (unless you need). If the enchanter wins and de's it, it's theirs.

However, when we down boss(es) - whoever doesn't need the drop(s) will be de'd by the enchanter and then we all roll for those shard(s) at the end of the run (or is placed in the guild bank).

My thoughts are that the extra loot should be rolled on as a greed roll. if an enchanter gets it they can get a hard, if someone else gets it they can vendor them for cash.

Just because no one can use the item itself doesnt mean it should automatically go to the enchanter. I can ALWAYS use cash :)

Meh, as a raiding guild the DE's shard is everyone's shard. As a LW I use my mats all the time for the benefit of the guild. I have no problem donating armor kits when people get upgrades or new people start to get higher end epics. I can understand a LITTLE in PUGs but I prefer not to PUG, avoiding such problems altogether.

DE'ers getting shards - I wish :(
If you suggest this people will just greed the bop's.
Remember UBRS and skinning the beast?
The LW would have been crucified if he took the skin.

i dont agree with you yeah its true that u need them for enchanting but evryone needs em for enchants :P i mean everybody lets his gear getting enchanted and so u will need mats for that.

I've always found that if you wait till the end to roll, it's better because then everyone is sick of the instance and hearths... they leave you with said shards, and never ask to roll on them. So. Instead of reminding people I ask them to remind me, and they never do it. So I just keep the shards o.o It's a bit unfair to do it in such a way but I feel they same way about taking my shards!

I think it's based more on a situational basis. I think with guildies and friends the chance of you DE'ing some blues/epics and then convincing them that you should keep it to level your enchanting is far higher than doing the same with a pug group.

Lets face it; everyone tends to be greedy, and when it comes to shards, no one in the pugs likes watching the shard they helped to obtain get taken away by the enchanter because they need to the skillups/buy more recipes. I certainly don't. It annoys me even more when the person that can disenchant passes on the useless loot anyway.

Look at it this way: lets say you had different professsions, and you needed the shards for an enchant you've been saving for and you know yourself that gaining the shards by pugging would be cheaper than having to go to the AH to buy them. You happen to come across a pug with an enchanter that decides to take all the shards in exchange for his services. The likelihood of the rest of the pug agreeing with him is rather small.

In any case, mining nodes, leather, and herbs are far more easier to farm than farming shards in an instance purely because you can practically find them anywhere.

If you do remember something, remember this; everyone has a use for that shard, so i reckon everyone should roll on it. I have an enchant/tailoring warlock, and I have no problems with other people rolling on the shards in an instance.

There is some truth in this, BUT mostly enchanters say : your mats, small fee. so they don't need the mats themselves, only to enchant their own gear.

wouldn't it be nice if we all just greeded or even passed on gear we don't need and ALWAYS pass on profession related items we dont need?

That is so true...i never thought of it that way but we are getting screwed...fro i am a enchanter too...

Thing you seem to have forgotten is all party memebers worked together to kill that boss for that blue/purple item. so its only fair they get a chance.

i know you might say the group worked together to kill x for artic fur, or cleared x amount of trash to get to that mining node, but if no one had mining/skinning, no one loses out. whereas if no one has enchanting and no one needs the item, its effectively wasted.

not biased, am enchanter myself ;)

in my opinion, the enchanters should keep the shards, it was their choice to be able to make them right? if another person in the group wants the shard for himself he can reroll to enchanting and raise the levels to disenchant that high level gear

i also understand that higher level gear creates expensive shards for enchanters, but its a profession which is meant to earn money for people or create better gear, so after a certain point we can think of enchanting as almost a gathering prof. in that sense that the shards sell well on AH

and if you think about it, shards wouldnt sell that well if the enchanters always got them anyways since they would be using them to level enchanting, the only reason you even see shards on AH is from things like this, people selling them back to the enchanters that DE them in the first place

I have to disagree. If non-enchanters in a group are passing up the possibility of vendoring or AH'ng a piece of gear to let it get DE'd, I say the shards are up for grabs just like the gear would have been.

When I play with my guild, we all know who needs/wears/uses what, and we make sure they get those things. When someone got some plate armor that I, as a warrior was the only one who could use it, all hell broke loose. It was an accident, and the person felt bad, but no biggie. I've made a macro that outlines loot rules, and it hasn't happened again.

I'm the main enchanter for my guild (whom I only run instances/raids with) and this is how we work it:

Green random drops gets Greed rolls by everyone. If the winner chooses to, I'll take the item and DE it for them.

Blue randoms get the same treatment, but only nobody needs it. Everyone must agree before the person can take it.

Blue/purple boss drops, unless needed & agreed, goes to me and I DE it. We then roll on that shard.

Anyone new coming in gets these rules up front and if they don't like it, door is that way.

What most people are tending to forget that while Miners Herbalists and Skinners all have reliable ways to get their mats simply flying around Northrend or wherever there level may allow, instances are the only reliable means an Enchanter to get those particular kinds of shards without shelling out ridiculously high amounts of gold to get all they need from the AH.

I look at this from the perspective of a Scribe and Engineer, so I know that I need pretty much everything but the Shards (excepting the occasional rarely used recipe.)

The logic many seem to be using is that "Well when a node is found or an animal skinned only the BS or LW can use the material in the group so it's theirs, but others have need for the shards (Most of the time to sell it)

By that logic I have a right to roll on the bars they make from the ore, the leather they produce from the beasts or herbs they gather if any such nodes exist. Just because I can justify it as such, does that mean I should go ahead and assert my right to roll on the materials that THEY worked to produce from something I otherwise would have been unable to use? Of course not.

I say leave the shards to the enchanter since he/she will be the only one that will have any repeated use for it and if they're feeling generous let the shards be rolled for.

I completely disagree with you here bast. Comparing Enchanting to Mining and Skinning? Really? When did enchanting become a gathering profession? I understand that you need shards to buy recipes to level up, and then you need abyss crystals to get the best enchants, but you are a 450 enchanter, and you have ALL of the wrath enchants. I have no problem giving shards to guildies lvling their enchanting, but passing to you, simply so you can sell enchants and make gold off them? I love you bro, but no. If your argument is that you don't make any money off your current professions, drop engineering and pick up mining or something. With the change in enchant costs in the upcoming patch, shards are going to become much more useful, so I'll be keeping mine... well hopefully. Doesn't help that my girlfriend is an enchanter. But luckily we're both tanks, so you won't be ninja'ing my shards in 5 mans at least. :)

Hello,
Im a Enchanter myself. Well the way i see it I can DE the stuff and you cant. I spent a tone of money too be able too DE my stuff i receive. When you can skin and Nod mines and just make money like that. I chose not too say anything and just roll on stuff when im in a pug. I greed it like all the other and if i win i get my Shard if not well he can sell it. But for my Guildy they all give me the shards, basicly we put em in the guild bank that way if a guildy need a enchant i can do it for them. So why would i not want too DE and then roll with a pug. My saying is he didn't want too level up as a enchanter so why should he make money off a proffesion i spent time and money on so i can do this. So i chose not too say anything and just roll again Pug when time come.

That my opinion and dont realy care what you think

I hate when a group decides to roll on shards, cuz I dont want shards I want the loot so I can sell it lol

i totaly disagree, y should the enchabter get the items no 1 uses and make money when we could all rool on greed and make our own money, how am i supposed 2 mae money running instance when the enchanters get all the items i could sell of 2 ppl who would USE them

You're being greedy, so thanks for asking! The gathering profession argument is not relevant, because gatherers can gather anywhere in the world - the few places in instances we gather are a tiny bonus and a bit of fun. Oh, and the value of 3 goldclover is a lot lower than the value of a crystal :P

The main place to get crystals and shards is in instances. So sorry, but it does take 5 people to get you that far, and those 4 other people also need enchanting mats. That's why they cost so much on the AH.

I weep for the high cost of your enchanting receipes, I really do :P. Poor poor you, how Blizzard is making you suffer.

Seriously though, I think its much improved since BC; now you can get all enchants for nothing more than mere gold. No more endless farming for random drops. I think its a much nicer system.

Put it this way, I had a long argument with a (selfish) guidie of mine abou this. Btw, he is filthy rich, so his whining about the cost of enchanting is just whining. Its not stopping him spending 1000s on vanity items, because when you're that rich, there's nothing else to buy.

Anyway, he said he should keep them in a semi pug run for these kinds of reasons, and we let him. I was massively pissed. Then, when we did a pure guild run with officers & GM, strangely, he didnt say a word about this policy - he just let us all /roll on the crystals and shards. I couldnt believe it after all his self-righteous arguments to us "lesser" guidies.

Bottom line now: I dont trust him, I wont do 5 mans with him coz he''ll ninja the shards (or let us roll with bad grace and try to make us feel greedy) , and in 10 mans, I'll give the loot to another DEer... again, because I hate his attitude. Its a way a can publicly demonstrate to him to go f-himself. Arguments were irrelevant - he was just being selfish and I couldnt argue him out of it. And he knows it too ! - otherwise he would have tried to rip off our GM & officers when we did that pure guild run. He's actually so selfish, he thought it fairer to vendor an epic, then DE it and not keep the crystal himself. After all, if HE wasnt there, there'd be no crystal, right?

So go ahead and do what you like! But be preparted for people to shun you, or worse, if you do. You may think you're entititled, but other players will not. I asked several other enchanters about their views, in case I was being very unreasonable: same response from them: free /roll.

This is why you should only do runs with guildees or people you trust. The way my friends and I do it is that we have a "greater needs" system. Greed if you want to vendor it, Need if it's an upgrade, or else pass for the chance to have it DE'd.

However, if the Enchanter needs the shards for his own purposes, we give them to him in enchange for cheap or free gear and weapon enchants later because we helped him. Or if our tailor is low on frost orbs, he automatically gets them. Or if we're just recouping raid costs, we just vendor the whole lot of them or put them in the guild bank for everyone later. I got a whole tank set in a week because my guildees were willing to pass all the items to me that dropped. It's nice to have friends.

If you have to PUG though, drop the attitude and realize that everyone in there are greedy strangers so you're going to have to part with those shards.