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I don't get it. Are you saying I should pass on stuff I don't need so you can shard it and keep the shard? If I don't get to roll on the shard, I'm rolling on the item to begin with.

I do Enchanting/Tailoring and am the Tailor for the guild PopulusOfScientia, big guild, over 800+ members. So this issue is one I definitely have not ignored.

I play like this:

Group rolls rules go by as any green, blue, or epic item is rolled on greed first. Only needs are done if told b4 hand, before anyone else rolls, and people that say 'Oh I didn't know this would drop' well, theirs add-ons, websites, etc. that will give that info, so look it up, and save yourself from looking like a boss-jacker.

On most occasions, I always roll on Green items as Greed. For Blue items, I don't DE, just don't. Unless their going to help me spec up, then I'm a greed roller on them. Same goes with Purple. The only time I roll Need is on patterns for Tailoring/Enchanting, or Leather items that are good with Intellect since I'm a Druid.

I think the casual player doesn't seem to realize that instances aren't always easy to get groups for, so while people do follow some guidlines of generosity in instances, the people that don't have the mindset that, well, they should get everything they can out of this dungeon.

Greed in this case is better than Need folks. I' ve been in those positions where somebody rolls Need on EVERY item, and I just got fed up with it and started doing the same. Needless to say, I haven't partied up with them since, and have done well as a healing Druid on my own.

Ok, who are these noobs coming in and ruining Enchanting?. This was never happening when it was 1-60, hell, I didnt even see a sprinkle of rolling on shard when it was 1-70. All of a sudden I see this new craze of rolling on a profession's item. You cant be serious?. If no one needs it , than you as a DE roll greed if its green and need if its a blue. When the hell did this even become common? I've been playing for 4 yrs now...I've only started seeing this.

Of course Blizzard forced this upon the game, since you require greens and blues and yes even Epics to DE for YOUR profession. In my opinion that was going to cause problems. Enchanting is really a guild instance run thing. I rather have my friends run me through something a few times for the shards.

I guess in the end its never going to change, it just sounds to me like most DE's buckled because people complained that they need for a profession. Regardless Its always the Leader's fault. "master Loot" anyone?.

While I do agree that if there was no enchanter there would be no shard, the system is so firmly in place that it is not likely to change soon. It's not exactly fair to the enchanter, but it is what it is. And we're only talking about boss drops here, not all random loot. Not all cloth goes to the tailor, same as not all random greens go to the enchanter. If there is a skinner/miner/herber in the group that is using his/her skills, no we don't roll on all that, most of the rest of us have no real use for those mats. If I did need them for something, I have enough friends with a variety of skills that would gladly give or trade to me anything I needed just as I would for them.
In my guild all epic de mats go in the guild bank, That to me is perfectly reasonable since there would be nothing to de if the guild had not run and it is for the benefit of the whole guild. If I'm in a complete pug then everyone rolls on boss loot shards, that is expected. If I'm saving up for an enchant I'll keep it, if not, I still roll and if I win I tell the chanter to keep it (unless they had a bad attitude). If I'm with friends we usually keep them in an alt bank in which we all have full access, for use within the group. It works for us.
I think who gets the shards depends on the group. I say, if you want all the shards, ask up front when joining a group. Most people in this game are greedy, only out for themselves. That will never change.

Thats true, but then every enchanter in the game should enchant other peoples things for a low amount of gold, plus there wouldnt be no "free with ur mats" because the mats are going to be very hard to get.

what i used to do was wear only half of my epic gear and others were greens so when something droppped i would say that i needed the gear then shard it after i dropped group

I pissed off some old friends doing this once. First day of wrath we ran UK and I've been an enchanter since launch so when the first blue dropped and it was a downgrade for everyone I was excited for my first shard. When we got to the end of the instance one of the people in the group who I didn't know asked when we were gonna roll for shards. I said "Well we're not, I have 75 levels of enchanting to work on." Needless to say he didn't agree with my opinion.

hell no your not being greedy whenever some1 DEs stuff in my grp i always pass on rolling and say "u keep it" always hav always will. only time i roll if theres another skinner in the grp to see who gets first skin or if theirs a chest.
and besides whoever wins the shard will just give it to an enchanter so he can get an enchant for less because they "supllyed" the mat. so no u'r not greedy keep u'r shards basts! and every other enchanter out there!

There is an easy common curtiousy that can solve this problem.

First of all at the start of the PuG say that you are an enchanter and that everyone should simply pass wont you dont need. You DE everything that wasn't needed however you state that you keep a shard for the service then all remaining shards goto the /roll and the winning players.

Should there be another enchanter they are garuenteed a shard too. If the group agrees good. When it comes to uneeded epics you either just greed with the others, or you sacrafice your free shard to the group roll, not taking any rare shards and are allowed to DE the unneeded epic and keep the epic shard.

You always have to talk this over with your group before bosses, normaly while your summoning is a good idea.

FYI Only just recently dropped 441 Eng to take enchanting so my way of doing this was before being an enchanter, I never would go heroics without the ability of someone to DE!

Kurtizzle

I agree, with your blog,

THIS KEEPS THE AH FROM BEING FLOODED,

This is why you roll need on most loot in a pug. Too many people focusing on themselves [as if that's anything new].
I'll vendor my winnings and you can stuff yours.

Well imo if you dont want to share your shards, just tell ppl you just want to roll on the drops, and greed roll like everybody else. But you cant just need on gear to disenchant it. Even non-enchanters can get a few gold out of it.

i see the point that people can vendor the items for gold, but you have too look at things like nodes and skins, if every1 gets the chance at taking the mats away from an enchanter, why should the enchanter not have a chance at taking the mats away from a miner or a skinner?

im an enchanter and have always offered my mats for roll, just because i know people will kick off and flame, and i just cba to type all of this whenever a blue drops.

dream shards are hardly even used for enchants... they are used by an enchanter to buy recipies, and therefore the enchanter should get them.

If you disagree, roll enchanting .. im currently 421 at every skill up will cost me 500g + ( and i cant just offer 'your mats no fee' because the enchants at this level are just plain useless )

It's quite obvious to me, really. When a mining node or a herb is taken, the players without the corresponding proffesion are not able to profit from the node/plant.

When you disenchant an item for it's shards, however, you are still taking away the items that could be given to a member of the group and vendored.

Just say you're not an enchanter and greed like the rest of the group. If you win you will have your shard.

Enchanters SHOULD be able to keep their shards. Not being biased as I am just an AH junkie that sells herbs and ore/bars. If nobody can use the gear and there is a chanter to d/e why should the rest of the group get the shard? What are they gonna use it for? Not many enchants can be used from one or two mats. Sell it on the AH? Single shards are NOT a good seller on the AH. Chanters should be able to use THEIR shards.

Well I am an enchanter. I really hate it but I have done it for so long and spend so much money on it I can't see lossing all that. I never looked at enchanting the way you have. It puts the worst proff in a new light to me. If the whole group can roll on shards against me I should be able to roll on the mining nod or the skin. If I get enough ore or skin I should beable to have someone make something that I can DE dont ya think. Enchanting is the only profession that can not go out farming.

I think it should be up to the enchanter

To be honest, you are being greedy.
The loot a miner/skinner/herb get are from regular trash areas, normally yielding low level materials. That trash also provides a good amount of green drops which you no doubt d.e. for your benefit when won. In a boss encounter you are guaranteed a high-level mat. when disenchating. Mats that are extremely expensive when compared to an a arctic fur or ore deposit, and mats that others who don't enchant need to buy for their armor-buffs.
I say this being a 'chanter, knowing it sucks to lose a shard, but also knowing there are many more to come, and I can always sell other mats in exchange for the shards i need.

But see, the thing of it is, the enchanter provides a service. They Need roll on the item and turn trash loot that would otherwise be vendored into something that can be sold for a higher amount on the AH. So just because you DE something does not mean its yours, it means you transmuted it into something more valuable. Think about it like this, if there were no miners in the group, the ore would be left there. If there were no skinners, the beast would go unskinned, but if there were no Enchanters, the item would be greed rolled and the winner would vendor it. The theory is that the shard goes to whoever would have won it anyway.

It's the concept of farming. All miners can go out into the world and find nodes and farm that way. All skinners can farm leather all day. For herbalists... see miners and replace "nodes" with "flowers"
Then there's the concept of a profession that is both a gathering and a crafting profession: aka Tailoring and Enchanting. Anyone can farm humanoids and get cloth or farm mobs of any kind and get greens/blue/epics. If you say enchanters should get the group's kill's shards then shouldn't tailors get all the cloth for an instance run? That wouldn't make sense, would it? You have to get your shards the same way as everyone can... you still have your crafting half to the profession that miners/skinners/herbalists don't. That's why we roll for shards.

The loot rules I use when leading a group:

Looting is set to Master Loot (Rare and up, RNG has already picked who gets a green when it drops on a corpse, so no need to roll on it again.)

We killed a boss, an item drops that some one wants, they are then given a chance to /roll 1000,

An item drops no one wants its given up to greed roll /roll 100

The winner of that item is given the option. DE or Sell?

Item gets DEed and shard given to the person that won.
The enchanter had the same chance to win the item as any one else and had the same choice. If he really feels that he don't want to give away shards that he DEs he can simply not offer to DE. DEing is the choice of the enchanter at the start of the run. We don't make them DE.

I have personally ran instances where we rolled on what dropped from a node, but really I could just not mine it right? That way it don't get taken at all and goes to waste.

I hear where you're coming from but I completely disagree. :-)

Next time you run a group and tell them you want to keep all the shards, I bet they vote for vendor greeding instead. However, I do think that as a DE-er you should be able to keep one shard of your choice per total number of people in the group... after all, without the Enchanter the items couldn't be sharded. So if you were in a 5 man group and got 7 shards, you'd get to keep 2 and everyone else rolls for the rest.

We're all running the instance and all need the gold, so if an Enchanter says they're keeping it all, then I'm vendor greeding.

The difference with mining/skinning vs DEing is: those two professions require that skill to tap it - if an Enchanter wasn't in the group, everyone would just roll on the item.

Can you tell where I stand on this? :-)

I think the main difference, is the fact that the majority of players entering an instance need or are looking for the blue/purple items. Those are 100% obtainable in an instance, however, skins and mining nodes are not. It depends on the instance and the mobs. I do think it would be fair to roll for any blue/purple items obtained via skinning/mining though. Fortunately, you can avoid the issue entirely if you run with your guildies. Because good guildmembers help each other for free with the mats they obtain from working together in Instances.

Guild runs the enchanter keeps it but for pug runs there is usally a role. If I win I toss it in the gb.