Project Lore: All Things World of Warcraft

Professional gamers. For all the sponsored tournaments, unwarranted merchandising, and red-eyed luminaries that now swarm around the nexus of competitive gaming, you'd think it would amount to more than a footnote in our sporting culture. Currently, they're lucky to get a mention on ESPN 2, somewhere in-between Punkin Chunkin and the ailing World Poker Tour. That's certainly not to knock the players themselves. I mean, what kid in the past two decades hasn't dreamt of living out their years on a fat stack of cash earned from mastering the joystick? "The Wizard" dazzled us with that vision, and a shelf full of "How To Win At Video Games" books gave us hope that, one day, we too could be the first person in the world to find the hidden Warp Zone. To date, few have been able to take that journey, let alone make enough green to retire by the age of thirty. But that's not to say the industry isn't booming, or that it doesn't have a history. When we think of professional gamers, the first thing that comes to mind is probably Quake or Counterstrike. Pure competition in the spirit of the world's greatest sports; human versus human, even if its facilitated through the a computer screen. The story doesn't begin with the explosion of the old 'tubes in the early '90s, though. No, digital athletics have been chronicled for at least as far back as 1981, when Twin Galaxies founder Walter Day began recording the high scores he found on local arcade machines. I'm talking asynchronous competition here: nohead-to-head matches, just a battle of points, a battle of progress. And the cottage culture has created its share of rivalries, too -- the one between Steve Wiebe and Billy Mitchell over the world record for Donkey Kong, as portrayed in the documentary "The King of Kong," being the most notable. Accusations have been thrown about that, for all its seemingly hard and fast rules, that Twin Galaxies has problems with showing favoritism. In the film, for instance, they go to great lengths to test Wiebe's arcade machine for a hacked circuit board, while they allow Mitchell to send in "legitimate" scores via video tape (where the rules say record attempts must be done in front of officials). Records? World firsts? Scandal? Does any of this ring a bell, Warcraft fans? The recent controversy concerning Exodus and their Yogg-Saron + 0 kill may not seem like something worth getting up in arms about, and perhaps it isn't, but it did get me thinking about the implications of the existence of high-end raiding guilds. Where did they come form and what do they represent? Is there value to be found in winning a war against a machine, or does the accomplishment seem puerile next those that involve defeating another human? Do they breed cheerleaders or jealousy and are they ultimately healthy for the community at large? As I continue to mull over these questions in my head, I begin to see these guilds -- Ensidia, Exodus, and the like -- as the modern Twin Galaxies crew, and all the potential problems that could bring along with it. If they're taking advantage of game-breaking bugs to get ahead (the e-sports equivalent of juicing) and slinging mud at each other, that's a sign that competitive progression truly is serious business.

[/caption] Their existence is of no surprise, coming from humanity's need to define a "best." From the minute we are born, we start building hierarchies and classifications, sliding different people, organizations, and things into them like blocks in a pyramid. Quite simply, given anything, there are those individuals that will seek ways to be, make, or facilitate a standard. High-end raiding guilds just represent the capstone of the WoW universe. I don't think it matters whether or not a particular goal is worthy, merely that it exists to be conquered. But what of it, then? How do we measure the importance of a world first kill? As a long-time gameplayer myself (and I'd pretty much have to be, if I were blogging for Project Lore!), I'm not about to call it a waste of time, but it feels to me as though there's something that needs to be sorted out when your "win" seems to consist of nothing more than learning and executing a set pattern. If that were truly it, then we'd all be able to do it given enough time. No, you need skill, mental and physical dexterity. A quality rig and decent connection doesn't hurt, either. There's little doubt that your average high-end raider is playing at a completely different level than you are. And as many of these top-tier progression guilds are also home to rock star PvP teams, you certainly can't knock their expertise. I suppose my concern arrives at the point of content, and what is being "conquered" in WoW. Most of those old Twin Galaxies records are endurance trials. Arcade games have a history of running indefinitely (or at least as long as the programming let them), allowing your average record attemptee to play and rack up points until they run out of steam. On the contrary, a world first in Warcraft amounts to a race to see who can reach a benchmark first. But once it's accomplished, that's it. As it is, everybody gets to sit on their hands until the next dungeon comes out. So perhaps it is the mere nature of the competition that makes it seem so fruitless on the surface. What can be done to remedy this? I'm not entirely sure, but the measurement likely needs to be changed. Currently, MMO-Champion keeps a log of world firsts called the Hall of Fame, which records only the time, date, and guild associated with an initial kill. We could go the route of cataloging reams of personal data (things such as DPS, healing effectiveness, and so on), but that almost seems too complex. Personally, I'm a fan of the speed-run, something that's been a stock measurement of finite-end video games for awhile now. You can find loads of them all over Youtube and other video sites, covering everything from Super Mario Bros. to Final Fantasy. It's a convenient mark of efficiency that's even started to creep its way into the World of Warcraft. A few enterprising individuals realized that they could still squeeze some fun out of Naxxramas before the release of 3.1 by completing it as fast as possible. Watching them, I was amazed at how the players handled certain encounters or deftly side-stepped trash mobs in ways that I hadn't conceived of before. The downside of speed-runs is that they're ultimately susceptible to the same foul play as world firsts, by means of taking advantage of bugs and glitches to achieve faster times, but they do offer a wider range of accomplishments to be had. But whatever measurement might ultimately be employed down the road (and it will have to be as the field of eligible guilds expands), there's still the issue of competitive progression on the WoW playerbase. Having browsed forums, fansites, and in-game chat, I've seen everything from cheerleading to vitriol. Whether you hate them or love them, there's little doubt that these guilds are community touchstones. Even Project Lore's own iTZKooPA claims to "live through them vicariously." While I lean just a tad towards the critical side, I've caught myself referencing the timing of world firsts as standards by which to judge the difficulty of the content. Stepping back for a moment, common sense sets in, and I realize that talent is a greater factor in these accomplishments than a lack of complexity, but that sort of mindset is dangerous for content developers. Namely, Blizzard. Perception, especially when combined with the mob mentality of the internet, can quickly and easily trump the reality of things. If the community sees a difficult boss kill achieved within the first few days of a dungeon's release, they're going to start questioning whether or not Blizzard's given them their money's worth, and that seems to be one of the major problems they've run into with providing content in Wrath. On the other hand, top guilds can be a huge boon for the game's popularity. After all, how pervasive would most professional sports be without the cult of personality? All the pomp and circumstance associated with teams and players does amount to something. As the proletariat of Azeroth, guilds like Ensidia, Exodus, or Premonition give us rare insight into the inner workings of upper-level game mechanics. They might even inspire us to play better or to become something ourselves, just like little Jimmy did in "The Wizard." *cue Stan Bush* The controversy associated with high-end raiding guilds, however, will not go away, and it may even metastisize as more and more join them at the pinnacle. I'm honestly not sure what to make of Exodus' response to their own banning. Their complaints, citing past game explotation by rivals, may stink of butthurt, but are nonetheless valid. The blatant flag-waving, though, whether or not its tongue-in-check, leaves a real nasty taste in my mouth. If this is a sign of things to come, I'm not sure I like it, and it's most certainly not something that Blizzard, a company founded on fair play and a commitment to quality, would want to be associated with. To close out this post, I'd like to emphasize that despite some of my skepticism concerning the phenomena of high-end raiding and competitive progression, a lot of the guys and gals involved are ultimately classy and well-respected players. They've mastered elements of the game I can only hope to one day in the distant future and consistently proven their dedication to a product that many have waned on out of sheer frustration. Their knowledge and input may just make World of Warcraft a more fun and interesting game to play. But my concern remains. After years of observing (and in some cases, even help running) gaming competitions, I'm all too familiar with the complications and inconsistencies that can arise. Organizations like MLG are doing their best to create a standard set of rules which we can all play by (though I don't believe they currently cover the brand of achievements I've talked about here), and if "professional gamers" are seeking to live up to the first part of that title and gain more mainstream acceptance, it is in their best interest to follow them. "Another lengthy post by Amatera, right? What is this guy thinking?! This is a blog! Posts are supposed to be bite-sized and easily digestible!" Well, I'm sorry for making you all sit through my verbal torture, but I hope you've enjoyed what you read, and I'm especially interested to hear what you all have to say about this topic. It's one that I think rarely gets taken seriously, but has the potential to explode in the future. What do you think of the existence of high-end, competitive raiding guilds, and what kind of effect do they have on the community? Do you believe that their accomplishments have honestly influenced WoW's development over time, or is the whole affair of world firsts completely pointless? Readers, the floor is yours. Click to read more ...

The Next Expansion: Guild Progression

Posted by

iTZKooPA on

Thursday, July 2, 2009 -

35 Comments Tags:

guilds,

ideas for the future,

titles

BlizzCon is slowly creeping up on us, and this year most people expect the company's big announcement to be World of Warcraft-based. With StarCraft 2 locked in for this year, and Diablo III looking like 2010, early 2011 is rip (if not late) for the third expansion to Azeroth. As it stands now, people are expecting The Maelstrom (not storm) or The Emerald Dream to be the focus of the next expansion (water mounts anyone?), but World of Warcraft needs more than epic lore to pull people in and retain the current amount of users. Like any good internet subscriber, I need to get my ideas out there before the announcements are made so I have something to point to and go "told you so!" We, the citizens of Project Lore, touched upon the idea of guild progression earlier this week. The short quip in the post almost lead to a complete derailment of the topic. Nearly as many commentators spoke out for guild progression as guild cohesiveness , the actual discussion. Obviously the topic is an important one to many of us here, so here's to hoping that Blizzard is listening. Outside of player desire, there's also another reason Blizzard needs to step up, every other game is doing it. There is the whole jumping off a bridge philosophy to worry about, but I say the leap needs to be made. Desperately. Plan and simple, there is absolutely no reason to stay in a guild these days. None. Not one single reason keeps me from guild hopping daily. Okay, perhaps SolidSamm 'The Guild Hopper' wouldn't be a great title, but I could still get things done. I could leap from guild to guild and still raid, still participate in Arenas, still do my dailies, you name it. I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't be able to do these things without a guild. Not by any means. What I am suggesting is that your guild, and one's standing in the guild, should rise the more you contribute to it, and the rest of Azeroth. How cool would it if your guild leveled up along side you through various means? Guild age, member count, average member length, these are just some easy ways to measure a guild's progress. Then we have more complex, and fun things to participate in. Complete 100,000 quests as a guild and receive a new Feat of Strength, all guild runs of Ulduar and Naxxramas award another. A new title, "Home of Mick" if your guild contains the #1 Arena team. "Die Hard" for guild domination (no deaths) in all of the Battlegrounds. The creativity could be taken as far as Blizzard would allow it. However, without player/guild housing, the developers would be somewhat restricted to what types of rewards they could offer. We'd be limited to things like extra guild bank slots (no longer would the GM have to pay up), news titles and achievements, super tabard construction, guild recognition, guild summoning (for those Warlock-less nights), discounts at vendors...Should I keep going? One cool thing I would like to see is auto-progression in the guild. Instead of, or perhaps in conjunction with, the current guild ranking system we'd have a ranking system based upon atoon's contributions to their guild. No longer would a player's popularity allow him to raise the ranks of a guild, instead a toon's standing in the guild would be promoted by way of merit. As cool as it is I doubt this idea would fly due to the loss of control by the GM and officers. A complete, and detailed, overhaul to the Guild system in WoW would be a huge boon to the community, and a great selling point on the back of The Maelstrom's/Emerald Dream's box. Who in their right mind wouldn't want to be a part of a guild that did their best to stay together, tried their utmost to deal with the internal issues, was full of selfless and giving members, was a group of friends and not random acquaintances. In a word, comradery. After all, aren't MMOGs supposed to be all about the social experience? Those are just the seeds to get the greater readership brainstorming. What other progression mechanics would you have in mind? How about other types of rewards? Are you fine with the guild hopping ways of today, or do you desperately want a change like I, and many others, do?

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Too Soon for a New Tier?

Posted by

Bastosa on

Tuesday, June 30, 2009 -

31 Comments Tags:

Ulduar,

bastosa,

gear,

loot,

progression,

raiding,

tier 8,

tier 9,

time

Tier Gear As more and more information comes out of the PTR, its pretty hard to not pay attention to it. I am personally getting pumped for all the great new content Blizzard is getting ready for us. As I'm pretty sure most of you have noticed, the new loot we will be able to earn is amazing. Tons of great drops, crafted gear, and most importantly the new tier pieces. While it all exciting, with 3.2 seeming near it makes me wonder if it all is coming a bit soon. I know this may sound a bit odd coming from the guy who complained about how long we were stuck in Naxx, but I don't think we have had enough time in Ulduar. Most of my shiny new T8 epics still have that new car smell, and there is plenty of hard-mode loot I haven't even had a chance to farm. Perhaps I am just concerned that the new loot showing up on the PTR is a bit too good. With all of this new stuff available I will see little reason to go back to Ulduar. This would be a shame because I think Ulduar is an amazing instance! Blizzard managed to create a challenging instance that is full of story and has tons of replayability with the hard modes. I am not ready to leave! While I'm sure people will still be running it, finding motivated groups will be difficult with all of the best stuff somewhere else. At the very least it would be nice to still make the hard mode loot relevant. Yes, I know there will still be best-in-slot items sprinkled around in old content, but by and large we are progressing past it. While I feel most people have had a fair shot at Ulduar itself, I know many people want time to go deeper and try those hard modes. Of course you can never make everyone happy, people progress at different paces, so while some are farming Algalon, many are still in Naxx. None the less for me, this seems fast. How do you guys feel about it? Want more time, or are you ready for something new already?

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When is Content on "Farm" and What Does That Mean?

Posted by

Ghostbeezy on

Thursday, April 2, 2009 -

18 Comments Tags:

Composition,

Drama,

Guild,

progression,

warcraft

Project Lore serves as a ground for people to learn, live and love everything Warcraft but recently myself and the guild I reside in have come to a crossroad. When is content under "farm" status and what does that mean for your guild? As of late, the guild I am in has swelled to the biggest it has been for a long time and it's given us some great opportunities. We can have more than one Naxx 25 man run, which is a great thing for us. We've seen people who we didn't know anything turn into great raiders who could be counted upon. We've been able to get people into raids they would never see otherwise. Those are all things that, as a guild, you hope for. We get to help the casual raider really get to feel like they're getting their moneys worth out of a game, and makes everyone much more of a happy group. This brings unity, but will inevitably hit a difficult wall and will be jarring for people who aren't used to the wiping that Burning Crusade used to bring. What happens on the flipside? People have become dramatic, myself included, with the future of what will happen under new content. Four rogues, under current circumstances, have no place in a raid. We'll probably be able to bring two at most because of how much other top heavy survivable DPS classes are useful to a raid. Ret paladins bring kings, shamans bring totems, warriors bring battle shout to any respectable raid. Do you, can you cut the people who are your friends to see the betterment of your guild? Will people who think they are working hard realize that they just aren't as good as some who put in less effort? Furthermore, what does Farm status mean for your guild? Does it absolve a normal loot system, does it change the award system? How does your guild clearly define what furthers your guild in the content being as easy as it is at the moment? I'm having the problem deciding when something is on farm so clearly, does it change the loot system or who attends raids? How does one draw the line? In what is classified as a casual guild, can you be the person who cuts those who can't carry their own weight but are the life of the raid? I'm hoping you fans can come through in the comments and really bring clear how some guilds do it, because honestly I've never been in a content cleared situation such as this.

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Is the PTR Worth Your Time?

Posted by

Bastosa on

Thursday, March 12, 2009 -

18 Comments Tags:

3.1,

Patch,

Ulduar,

content patch,

progression,

ptr,

public test realm

There has been tons of talk about 3.1, Ulduar, and the public test realms lately. So for the first time ever I have transferred my character over the PTR to look around. While I know that test realms are intended to, well, test the upcoming content, we all know that is not people's primarily motivation for going over there. The reason many players go is to get a leg up on the competition when it comes to raiding, research new abilities, and make sure they know exactly what changes they are going to make to their character when the patch hits the live realms. I have enjoyed being able to see the dual spec mechanic in person, am liking the built in outfitter functionality, and being the first to see things like the Argent Tournament has certainly been interesting. One thing I noticed is that there are certain people who seem to spend A LOT of time on the PTR. I have never been able to relate to this. Perhaps it's the same reason I have never been super excited about being a beta tester. For me there is a feeling that the time you spend is all for not. There is a certain impending doom knowing that as soon as Blizzard decides that their testing is finished everything will go away in the blink of an eye. So what is the point in investing the time? Any gear that drops from those Ulduar bosses is not yours to keep, any money you make from crafting new profession recipes is as good as gone, and any achievements you earn won't mean much when the server is cleared. Of course, the very hardcore raiding guilds are busy mastering boss strats so that they can knock out the world firsts, and there may be a few generous souls who want to help report every bug they see, but for the rest of you - what is the motivation? Isn't your time better spent on something you can keep (virtually)? I applaud you who are there to help Blizzard work out bugs, but for the rest of you, are you having fun?

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Sarth 3D: Progression or Pride?

Posted by

Bastosa on

Thursday, March 5, 2009 -

35 Comments Tags:

Mount,

drakes,

title,

In all my time raiding in WoW I have not seen an issue quite as polarizing as the Sartharion Encounter in The Obsidian Sanctum with all three drakes left alive (commonly called Sarth 3D.) This has been especially true in my guild lately as it is the last major hurtle we still have to overcome.

This encounter is commonly regarded as the most challenging fight in the current end game, and is something only a handful of guilds have accomplished. The incentive for winning this encounter is an achievement, an awesome title, and a rare mount that will only drop in this encounter. For me, there is also the sense that you have beat the hardest fight in the end game, but for many that is not enough.

See, there has been a lot of debate in my guild if this is something worth striving for. The guild has been split sharply into two separate camps. One camp, the camp I am a member of says: yes, this is important. My reasoning is simple. It is progression, it is the only fight we have yet to win, and I want to win it!

The second camp says: no, its is not worth all the time and resources we put into it. They say it is not progression, as it does not add any usable gear to the loot table, there are no new bosses behind him, and downing him will not help us at all in Ulduar. Essentially they see it as an achievement and nothing more.

While I am full aware that the 3 drake loot table adds no gear over the 2 drake loot table, I am going to have to express my opinion against camp 2. For me, raiding has never been about the loot. I’ve downed hundreds of bosses without the benefit of receiving loot personally. I play the game to overcome challenges. More importantly overcome challenges with my friends and guildmates. That’s why I play the game, to do something fun and challenging! This is the last challenge left for our guild.

Now I am aware that people have different priorities in this game. Some like raiding more than others. I for one love raiding and am not bothered by wiping for hours on end, as long as it is a means to an end. Some people clearly are bothered by it, it can be frustrating, and more importantly expensive (repair bills aren’t cheap!).

While we continue to grind away, and I am hopeful we are close, there is an undercurrent of internal conflict on every pull. For me it seems that Sarth 3D is something you have the motivation for or you don’t. My guild is unfortunately split on the issue. How about you guys? Is this a worthy goal, a waste of resources, or something you got out of the way a long time ago?

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Guild Chat: Nihilum

Posted by

Project Lore Editor on

Tuesday, October 21, 2008 -

13 Comments Tags:

Behind the Scenes,

Guild,

bosses,

naxx,

wrath of the lich king

A little while back, you saw the interview that Nihilum did with Project Lore on their website. Recently, we had the chance to chat with one of Nihilum’s earliest members, Marilyn, who has been in Nihilum since the guild was formed on Burning Legion. He’s been around since it all began and has held both officer and class leader positions in the guild. Currently, he’s a “regular” hardcore progression raiding member, so he knows all about Nihilum and how they have risen to become one of the top gaming organizations in the world. We chatted about a few different topics, like what it takes to be a top progression raider, the upcoming expansion, and PvP. Now, here is the full interview: Nihilum is one of the most well known and fastest progressing guilds in the world. What drives you to become part of one of the top guilds in the world? I am extremely competitive in everything I do. It all started really early, playing soccer, hockey or just playing chess back in my childhood, I just had to be the best and I'm definitely a sore loser. If someone beats me I will play him/her until I win. And the fact that so many people are playing this game and watching our progress, when we kill a boss world first the attention we get is pretty insane, and fun :D Your guild has a number of world first kills, not to mention server firsts. Which one was the most satisfying? Hm, Kel'thuzad, by far, for me. The amount of hours and energy we all put into that fight is something we haven't done again after that. What happened was we had two 1% wipes on Tuesday night. The server would reset for Europeans later that night, so in order to win against the Americans who had their reset 1 day earlier we knew that we had to beat him on that day to claim the world first. But since we failed to kill him that day, we thought the race was lost. But we woke up early the day after and I skipped school, we started raiding at 01:00 pm and we kept going til 05:00 am. By then the whole instance was cleared except Kel'thuzad. On Thursday we started at 02:00 pm, we buffed up and killed him. After so many hours on a boss and so much effort it felt unbelievable to claim him world first and become "the champions". Best World of Warcraft moment for sure :) Your raid team has seen every boss currently in the game. So far, what is your favorite boss encounter in the game? Hm... hard to pick, I've got many favorite bosses. But I have to say Heigan from Naxx 40. You could beat him with 10 people, and usually everyone just died and you had 10 good players standing :) What does your raid schedule look like during progression? It's a lot of hours. Lately it's been a lot more than it usually was. The reason for that is the competition. More guilds want to be the best and therefore more hours are required to succeed. I'd say from 12:00 to 02:00 is expected of us if they release new content. Of course, this is only something that lasts during one week or a few days. We all have real lives that need our attention :) How many times do you wipe before you kill a boss for the first time? Do you have any interesting ways to alleviate some of the frustration that must come with learning a boss with no input from anyone other than your guild? Raiding takes a lot out of you It all depends on the structure of the fight. Generally speaking, I would say at least 2-3 hours before you have the strategy nailed down, then another few hours to make it perfect. That makes it a total of 8-10 hours to know how a boss fight works. Twin Emperors in Sunwell took several days to figure out, so it varies a lot. To answer your second question I must say that keeping people calm is the only way. Take breaks of 10-15 minutes to let people breathe some air and get their mind on something else. Doing something for XX hours straight without a break is never good, no matter what you do. Many guilds have broken up due to drama between members over a variety of issues. How does Nihilum handle these things when they come up? Drama has always been around, it is almost impossible to get up to 40 people to get along. There are different ways to handle it. The reason we are still here is that we've been among the top (if not THE top) guilds out there, always. People in the guild are more serious in their gaming than most others, and with that thought in mind you can expect that people will act professionally. If people get upset or mad about something we just tell everyone to take a breather and we come back rejuvenated and calm, then discuss the matter. But, of course, I can't deny that drama has almost caused collapses within the guild, even for Nihilum. With Wrath of the Lich King right around the corner, how are you as a guild planning to level up? Questing, instancing, grinding mobs? Well, we haven't played much beta, any of us. Some have played it a lot and some haven't. What we did for TBC was just pure instance grinding. It was the fastest and best way to get to lvl 70. With blizzard stating that they don't want people to level that way, I think we will focus more on doing quests and doing random instances for fun! As long as it goes fast :) How will you become the first to clear the new Naxx? Do you play on the beta to get a feel for the encounters or simply hone your skills on the current content and get ready for anything? Nihilum have played Naxx on Beta, and by the looks of it, it will be easy. Also doing Sunwell every Wednesday keeps us in top shape :) Naxx will be cleared by the US guilds before any of the Europeans. Everything is cleared on beta and I predict that we will see a fully cleared Naxxramas 25 man instance within 8-9 days of the release of WotLK, including leveling. The reason for this is, even though they have changed some of the fights, it will still be the same. People know what to do and what to bring. Switching gears to PvP, congratulations to the Nihilum Plasma team that won Blizzard's 3v3 tournament at BlizzCon 2008. SK Gaming recently split their PvE and PvP teams. How much interaction does your raid team have with the arena teams? Is there any cross over between members? Is it difficult for players to be the best in the world at both PvE and PvP content or do both take similar skills? I reckon that most of the people of Nihilum PvE could be the best in the world at PvP if they chose that path. And same goes for PvP players if they decided to go PvE. This game is all about dedication, if you have the right conditions and the will, you will become the best. I'm not in any way trying to undermine our dear PvP players' achievement, they are awesome. But what I'm saying is that everything about Nihilum is professional. We are striving to be the best in the world, both at PvE and PvP. But being the best at PvP and PvE at the same time, I think is not possible. Both areas take a whole lot of time. And time is something that is limited for us all :) To answer the question if the PvP team and PvE team are connected in any way, I have to say that daily chats over mIRC client is all we do atm. They are doing their thing on another server and we on ours. But yes, we all know each other. Do you have any advice for players hoping start an elite guild like Nihilum? To start a guild like Nihilum at this point is hard. What you need is a group of people, 5-10 on the same server with incredible dedication and desire to be the best. You need to be willing to put a lot of time and effort into the matter. When I think about how much time I've spent on this game and the guild Nihilum, it's insane. Never give up on what you want, even when times are rough you have to think back to what you had as the original goal. And strive for it. And try to have a good base of hardcore people, those who do not stop for anything! Finally, what are your impressions of Project Lore? Great looking website, absolutely smashing :) We need more of these types of websites and communities. They all help to grow the game to another level :)

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